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Author Topic: OTS Tone with Kleinulator and Without Kleinulator  (Read 13593 times)
TommyTone
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« on: August 11, 2010, 07:33:54 PM »
What tone differences have you all found with using or not using a Kleinulator in loop on a OTS 50-watt.  I appreciate your tonal feedback via cleans and OD channel differences with and without.

Thanks!!
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Nairbr
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2010, 12:04:44 AM »
I have a HRM and found that with the Kleinulator in the loop of my amp it is less toppy and smoother sounding with or without fx plugged into it.

It's not a massive difference but do I prefer it in the loop and plug it in regardless of running fx or not.

Also I found fx pedals such as delay & chorus etc... are more transparent sounding.

Having said that I am just about to purchase a C-lator kit
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TommyTone
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2010, 10:57:43 PM »
Nairbr:  Thanks, what is a C-lator?  I've been thinking about trying a Fuch's d-lator with built in reverb as a bonus.
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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2010, 12:42:55 AM »
Hi Tommy
The C-Lator is Nik's version of a D-Lator.

http://www.ceriatone.com/productSubPages/C-lator/C-lator.htm

He released it a few months ago.

Cheers
Brian
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boldaslove6789
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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2010, 03:47:02 PM »
I have an HRM BM and I used the Klein for a while before getting a D-lator.

  In terms of sound I noticed the Kleinulator was really transparent and didn't color the amps tone @ all ( depending on what Effects I used in the loop of course &/+ long cable runs to smooth highs sometimes). I used the Send bright switch almost all the time because I likes what it did to the OD.

  I also noticed I couldn't run my AMP Master as high as I do with the D-lator ( at 11:00 o'clock ). Running the Master high with a buffered effects loop can be just another tone shaping feature IMO.

 The D-lator IMO does color the amp slightly. It smooths out the highs and can make the OD more responsive/ balanced/ dynamic and a bit compressed. I only use my bright switch ( my d-lator has a bright switch on the Send only) when I'm home recording/playing etc. When using the d-lators Level/Drive as a GLOBAL master @ a gig the bright switch is usually off because the amp brightens up @ high volumes.   

 I would recommend trying both and see which one you like the best. Other than the price the Klein & D-lator are both very use full tools for different applications etc. Effects respond/can vary with each unit and bring you a whole basket full of tone options.

 This is IMO of course..........
 
 Hope this helps. 
« Last Edit: August 14, 2010, 03:50:31 PM by boldaslove6789 » Logged
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TommyTone
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2010, 07:36:35 PM »
Thanks for all the great feedback.  Anyone try the Fuchs D-lator with built in Reverb???
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Pickmaster
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2010, 04:20:14 PM »
Quote from: TommyTone on August 16, 2010, 07:36:35 PM
Thanks for all the great feedback.  Anyone try the Fuchs D-lator with built in Reverb???

If you are talking about VERBRATOR then it is parallel/series device with digital reverb.
Does no affect tone at all and very handy when only need nice reverb. Does not matter how you set amp’s master it always sounds great, very tweakable!
Works well with other FXs in both settings.
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TommyTone
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2010, 08:41:04 PM »
Thanks Pickmaster: Wondering what tonal differnences I might hear using a Fuchs Verbrator vs Klein minus reverb of course?
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JD0x0
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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2010, 10:24:48 PM »
no one has mentioned this yet but the Phase reversal the the Dlator causes changed the feel of the amp quite a bit. This has been discussed more on amp garage, but basicly with the phase reversal you get a much more "singing" sustaining tone with more bloom.

Im not sure if Nik's Clator and the klein does the same thing but i know the real ones do.
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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2010, 10:36:49 AM »
Quote from: JD0x0 on August 17, 2010, 10:24:48 PM
no one has mentioned this yet but the Phase reversal the the Dlator causes changed the feel of the amp quite a bit. This has been discussed more on amp garage, but basicly with the phase reversal you get a much more "singing" sustaining tone with more bloom.

Im not sure if Nik's Clator and the klein does the same thing but i know the real ones do.

Its true that a Dumbleator puts the signal out of phase, but so is a Fender Super reverb. I don't think the phase topic is what makes the difference in sound. I believe its the fact that you put some ekstra cable and thereby capacitance into the circuit.

I run my dumblelator in parallel mode, whereby I have a minimum of extra cable, but in order to get the high end roll off that you get in 'normal' serial mode, I just add a cap here and there to get the same effect.
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JD0x0
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« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2010, 06:21:05 PM »
Quote from: bluesfendermanblues on August 18, 2010, 10:36:49 AM
Quote from: JD0x0 on August 17, 2010, 10:24:48 PM
no one has mentioned this yet but the Phase reversal the the Dlator causes changed the feel of the amp quite a bit. This has been discussed more on amp garage, but basicly with the phase reversal you get a much more "singing" sustaining tone with more bloom.

Im not sure if Nik's Clator and the klein does the same thing but i know the real ones do.

Its true that a Dumbleator puts the signal out of phase, but so is a Fender Super reverb. I don't think the phase topic is what makes the difference in sound. I believe its the fact that you put some ekstra cable and thereby capacitance into the circuit.

I run my dumblelator in parallel mode, whereby I have a minimum of extra cable, but in order to get the high end roll off that you get in 'normal' serial mode, I just add a cap here and there to get the same effect.

I dont think it's the cable. There were tests done where we simply switched the phase at the speaker (flip the leads) and got the results i explained above. But yes the higher pf cbles take some of the top end off as well and the Dlators add their own color. The test we did was purely one phase vs the other. The "correct" phase adds something of it's own which IMO is the bigger difference.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 06:23:32 PM by JD0x0 » Logged
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erwin_ve
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« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2010, 07:12:04 AM »
To get things straight: The cathode follower in the dumblelator adds a little compression but is from a tonal perspective hifi.
The recovery triode has a larger impact on the frequency response; works a little bit like a compressor and has a high frequency roll off. Together with the cables from the send and return it even has a larger impact on the high frequency.

So in other words; the dumblelator is not a transperant loop. It adds compression, filters highs and to my ears makes the OD tones more pleasant.
I would advise to make the overall amp more brighter if you like to use a dumblelator/kleinulator/clator.
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Steven_nl
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« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2010, 09:23:39 AM »
How important are the patch cables?
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erwin_ve
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« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2010, 11:19:15 AM »
Quote from: Steven_nl on August 19, 2010, 09:23:39 AM
How important are the patch cables?

Patch cables have, like every cable, a capacitance. The "amount" of capacitance is expressed in pF(picofarad).
It's like having a capacitor between your signal wire and ground. If the capacitance is high, lots of high tones are send to ground. If the capacitance is low, their still is high freq send to ground but not as much as a high capacitance cable.

Due to the circuit, the fx send return on the ots is very sensitive to the capacitance of the patch cables. 

So yes; it is important.
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Steven_nl
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« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2010, 01:43:04 PM »
Any advise on a brand? George L's are a bit stiff. I use them to connect my rack gear to the D'lator. but for connecting the D'lator to my amp I would prefer something a bit more flexibel. 60cm would be long enough.

Cheers guys

Steven
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