Ceriatone Forum

Yesterday I had the opportunity to compare my OTS BM with a T-R CRS V2 (Same Cabinet).
OK, the T-R has won the match:-(
One of the most serious differences for me:
The T-R has compared to my BM simple a thicker tone (and more harmonically rich)...

Has the normal OTS (not BM or HRM) in the clean channel also so a thick tone as a T-R?
Is maybe the result with Mercury Transformers better?

I've always wanted to see/ hear a TR vs. Ceriatone bout!

I see, though of course in such a short time, maybe with a little tweaking you can cover the thicker tone of TR perhaps?

Is that much of a difference or just barely noticable?

How would you descrive "thickness" cause I think ceriatones are thick with the proper settings.

Thats interesting. I've always wanted to compare these.

Not that much difference if you rely on pedals.
I have a Bluesmater HRM 100 (with Mercury OT, PT and Choke)
An FM 100 OTS Modern Eagle
A Fuchs ODS 100
and a Two Rock Studio Pro 100


They are all really good but the TR gets a great clean sound for sure...you have to work to dial the Mayer out of it.
(or pull the mid boost)

My BM has very thick clean and OD tones. I think speaker and tube choices can have alot to do with it, though.


Gregg

Are you referring to a Two Rock Custom Reverb Signature V2? If so, well of course it's going to sound different - it's a whole different animal than the bluesmaster. I don't know which dumble style circuit is in it, if any, but unless it's a bluesmaster variant, it's going to sound quite different. And you're going to pay a whole lot more for one of these, if you can even find one.

It all depends how you modify your amp !!!
No two rock sounds better than well tweaked OTS with the Mercury transformers and chock, especially drive channel.
You can tweak OTS clean channel to match TR clean which is great.
I’ve spend months to make my amps sound better than my TRs: TR Jat, TR reverb Sig 50, Sig 100 and Kimock and when I did, I’ve sold TRs and bought more OTS and couple of custom build guitars. ;)

Don’t be shay to experiment with the components: slope resistor, coupling caps on both channel, drive inlet capacitor and following resistor, V2 snabers end so on.

Remember, if you are a Jedai you have to build your own lightsaber!
Let the force be with you !!! ;D ;D ;D

Hahah thats good to know Pickmasta.

I remember you have a layout somewhere in this forum for an OTS modded for a Joh Mayer TR. Is that your latest? I am interested to mod my OTS 50 to JM specs in the future. I hope you can help me out sir.

 8)

I definitely will my friend. I’m on little tour right now (writing from my mobile). In couple of days I’ll post simple but useful tweaks which you all enjoy I hope .
Cheers

Sounds great sir! have fun on the tour.

I think I might go with your mods instead of converting to BM like I first planned. I figured it involves a lot of components and might aswell build a new chassis than kill an ots circuit.

Hi There,
Once again, here is a layout of the OTS FM mod.eagle. easiest platform for really great tone.
With offered mods (in green) you‘ll get clean as good as TR or Bluesmaster with 100-120pf High cap on volume push pull, fat but sparkly same time.

Important tip! When you use single coil pickups, you can switch OFF V1’s  0.05uF NLF cap for fatter, more compressed tone , but for the humbuckers  better switch it ON otherwise you will have to much sug and early brake up.

Drive channel (ratio X – line mod) will give you fatter and more open drive tone which you can smooth with higher value snubbers and if you use 120pf cap on volume’s bright switch, accordingly you have to increase V2,2 snaber’s capacitance with 3 way switch with 470pf or 680pf caps (you can experiment and chose cap’s value according to your taste).

On the mid-boost switch increase cap to 470pf for slightly more high mids and remove 0.001uF cap on bass pot for slightly more lows and low mids (or better introduce a mini switch).

Finally change presence pot to 1K linear for better early and smoother action.

I hope this mods are easy to perform and you will have better sounding amp instantly.

Best wishes and good luck.

(http://www.drika.biz/otsikamod.jpg)

Hey Pickmaster, thats sooooooo great !!!!

MANY MANY THANKS !!!!

I'll try it ;-)

Hi Pickmaster, I'm interested to know if these mods were performed before or after your YouTube clips?

So in all, you have the mods listed in the schematics with also MM tranny and choke?

Hello mate,

All recordings are after mods,  with MM transformers and choke.
Iron makes noticeable difference when play loud and I’m sure Nik’s modern, home transformers do the great job as well but I’ve asked him to supply MMs. 

Cheers

O --- M --- G !!!

I should've done this earlier!

I removed the LNF and the bass cap

Cured all my ills. The stiff attack I was rambling about was gone

Thanks a lot! Pickmaster. When I heard "more compression" on the LFB from your post I immediately removed my chassis and did it.

Now my sound has the BOUNCE man that bounce. And my overdrive is now set lower and I can turn up the ratio.

Thanks Pick :)

I've been considering a second ceriatone after my BM and I was leaning toward the FM or HRM with different voicing on the clean to try retain the same cleans as the BM or towards two rock territory. Got me thinking perhaps I should go the FM route with your mods for the cleans...

Cheers guys! I’m glad you’ve liked the results.
By The Way ! the mods would apply to all OTS amps except Bluesmaster and other HRMs which already have NLF cap removed and lower slope resistor.

Yes that was a pretty quick mod which gave me what I was yearning for in this amp. I just removed the LNFB cap and left the 22M resistors. Is it okay to leave them there? I figured I'd have to heat and mess with the sockets to remove the 22m resistors so i guess its ok to leave them there with no cap instead?

I am looking forward to that "Well Tweaked" OTS that could blow away or hang with Two Rocks as you said but am also intrested in your JM mods for OTS. What do you suggest I do? Follow your old JM mod layout along with these new mods you posted here of the FM mod eagle?

Thanks again! Love the new more musical girth of my tone so far.

Live the resistors there, no problem at all.
My first amp was S&M 50 and second was OTS100 so I needed to do much more tweaks than new OTS FM modern eagle which already has necessary mods.

You know, JM’s amp is big, clean one channel TR similar tu Dumble SSS which is great platform for clean tone and pedals in front of the amp.
But with offered mots on OTS you will get close fo sure and you don’t need other tweaking. Probably you can try different capacitor values on the master pot: 33pf, 47pf, 68pf and so one.

Cheers

Hi Pickmaster,

Just wanted some clarification on a few pointers on your mods,

1. Above you recommend a 100 or 120pf on the preamp volume push pull, however it isn't on your schematics. Do you think it necessary to have this and also a 3 way bright switch with values 68 and 120pf? Perhaps having both will provide more flexible variations of all three values of brightness on the cleans, with a 1M A push/pull set with a 100pf, which will be me variation of all 3.

2. LNFB two way switch (on/off). This is standard on the FM ME so no change required here.

3. On your schematic, the V2,2 snubber’s capacitance is a 3 way switch with 470pf or 680pf caps, however I plan on going the rotary switch path, however only a 6 way is available for me. Which values for the 6 way do you recommend? If my understanding is correct of this function, with the bright switches engaged (both the 3 way switch and the push pull mentioned in point 1 above) creating glassy/two rock type cleans, this rotary switch will remove the highs on the OD channel only, but retain the high mids producing a rounder attack and fatter sounding note definition with the OD. V2s snubbers value static at 330pf & 250pf which is the value on the schematic (within the V2 socket/circle) or both at 330pf?

4. The change for the mid boost to 470pf is straight forward, although I'm looking at possibly getting a 500k A push pull pot on the bass pot to engage/disengage the bass cap.

5. Think the drive - ratio x line mod values are straight forward with the values 100k - cap towards X terminal ( to be paired with 100k L pot which is standard on the FM)  and 0.01uf to be used with a 1000v ceramic cap and then 150k as per standard. My question here, is if I increase to 0.02 or 0.03, can I roll negate the added fatness of the OD by tweaking the V2,2 rotary switch implemented if i find it too fat?

6. 68 k slope resistor, 2w. Also ok here, although is there any reason why to choose 2w over 1w?

7. Lastly, the presence pot changed to a 1k linear.

If you could please confirm and provide some advice on the above would be much appreciated! Took me a while to study the schematics and understand the reasoning of the mods! Currently in discussion with Nik on the mods, so I want to make sure I'm relaying the correct information to him.

Thanks so much pickmaster for sharing these mods. To be honest, I was thinking of saving up for a Two Rock CRS at one stage.... But that would mean selling most of my beloved gear and saving up for a while further.... Damn too expensive they are....

Hi Strat,

1. Above you recommend a 100 or 120pf on the preamp volume push pull, however it isn't on your schematics. Do you think it necessary to have this and also a 3 way bright switch with values 68 and 120pf? Perhaps having both will provide more flexible variations of all three values of brightness on the cleans.
I don’t have push-pull on my amp but you are correct, it will provide more flexibility with the toggle switch on both channels !!!

2. LNFB two way switch. This is standard on the FM ME so no change required here. Correct.

3. On your schematic, the V2,2 snubber’s capacitance is a 3 way switch with 470pf or 680pf caps, however I plan on going the rotary switch path, however only a 6 way is available for me. Which values for the 6 way do you recommend? If my understanding is correct of this function, with the bright switches engaged (both the 3 way switch and the push pull mentioned in point 1 above) creating glassy/two rock type cleans, this rotary switch will remove the highs on the OD channel only, but retain the high mids producing a rounder attack and fatter sounding note definition with the OD. V2s snubbers value static at 330pf.
If you use 6 way rotary, I would suggest: 0 (empty pin), 470pf, 680pf, 1000pf, 1200pf and 1500pf. But you have to experiment and chose the caps by your taste, I can’t help you here.
4. The change for the mid boost to 470pf is straight forward, although I'm looking at possibly getting a push pull pot on the bass pot to engage/disengage the bass cap.
Great idea !!!

5. Think the drive - ratio x line mod values are straight forward with the values 100k ( to be paired with 100k L pot which is standard on the FM) and 0.01uf to be used with a 1000v ceramic cap. My question here, is if I increase to 0.02 or 0.03, can I roll negate the added fatness of the OD by tweaking the V2,2 rotary switch implemented if i find it too fat?
No, rotary only cuts highs! If you want 0.02 and 0,03 you have to implement toggle or push pull (than you have to chose only 0,02 or 0,03) somewhere.
I think 0,01 is enough, so less work for you.

6. 68 k slope resistor, 2w. Also ok here, although is there any reason why to choose 2w over 1w?
I prefer $2 to $1 !!! Well there is a 250V on this resistor and I’ve noticed it was getting warm, now 2w is cool.
7. Lastly, the presence pot changed to a 1k CORRECT.

GUYS, I’m happy to help but this long posts are taking my time and energy. Also our taste in tone might be different, so best way is to do loads of experimentations with offered mods and chose what is best for YOU !
Cheers

Can't thank you enough for your time Pickmaster!

Was really digging your tone in your vids hence the copy cat :)

Again, thanks man, really appreciate it!

To me, this is a completely different level of participation and posting, more like an ampgarage forum's topic, done here instead of there for Ceriatone amp owners.  .  This is a giant step in the right direction.  Apparently we DO have enough expertise-related critical mass here...Excellent!

I've got to say, I've learn so much about the amps since being around here. Never thought I'd ever be asking specifics on cap values etc!