Ceriatone Forum

The HRM BluesMaster clean channel seems to be very well recieved as it is similar to a fender and will break up a bit. How does that compare to the Ford model? I havent heard any comments or videos regarding the Ford models' clean channel.
Thanks!

The HRM Bluesmaster and the serial #102 "Ojai" Robben Ford amp are 2 completely different sounding amps. Both sound great in there own right although.

 The Ford amp has a Skyliner clean tonestack with NON-HRM OD it has more "chime'y" clean tones, and a much more focused OD w/ an almost horn like sound. This voicing has a Ratio control to balance the clean and Overdrive.It is also a very bright amp because of the large Master Volume Bright cap. The brightness is tamed with high pF (aka capacitance) RG-400 cables and a Dumbleator, also giving the amp an overall smoothing effect and increasing harmonic bloom and adding compression. A very "fast" response and a great sounding amp that all your tonal nuances will come out (good or bad LOL).

 The Bluesmaster has a Bluesmaster (Marshall/tweed Fender) style clean tonestack with HRM "bluesmaster OD".  The cleans are very girthy and has more Bass content that other voicing's. The Overdrive is also very fat sounding giving a broad range of Overdrive tones. The Bluesmaster also has a Bluesmaster Phase inverter (ala Marshall) and has less "clean headroom" then all the other voicing's. In addition it has separate Master volume controls for the clean and Overdrive. This amp also sounds better with a Dumbleator (but no need for high pF cables).

Bold: I agree on the description, but RG400 isn't a high capacitance cable actually it is very low capacitance and normally used to transfer fe. radio signals where a minimum loss is required.

So, and sorry if I don't understand completely, is the purpose of RG-400 cable to smooth out the high end by attenuating (length/resistance) OR preserve as much high end as possible (high quality cable). Or maybe both, I can imagine certain harsher frequencies being tamed, but others untouched?

I agree with this description as well. The Bluesmaster has that Tweed/Early Marshall quality to it, and a little bit of Blackface in to boot, and the clean channel can be driven nicely into overdrive and it is a beautiful thing. To me, the OD channel sounds better with the HRM tonestack disabled. It makes sound less like a hot rodded marshall and more like a cranked tweed/early marshall/blackface and to me has alot more touch sensitivity to it. Nik told me i prolly wouldn't like the HRM sound based on my amp preferences, and that it was easily disabled, and that i would prolly love LOVE the non HRM OD, and he was right on all counts. Mine also has a switchable PAB mod that allows me to switch the tonestack completely out, not just accentuate the mids, which i totally dig as well.

As far as the RG-400 cables go, Greg and Erwin know way more than I do, but i can see where you would want to use some sort of high capacitance cable or a long cable run to take some of the higs out of the Ford Model, IF you don't want the highs there. I like alot of highs some of the time ala Freddie and Albert King and Albert Collins so i wouldn't go this route, but tone is a very subjective thing as we all know.

Hope this helps!

Gregg

Due to the postion of the circuit whatever cable you use will always end in a high freq. loss. The RG400 is attenuating less compared to a normal cable. But still there is a noticable loss of high freq.
So yes it smooths out , but not too much compared to a regular cable.

Here's a sloppy quick take:

http://soundcloud.com/soulrebels/fm100-cleanish

I tried to set it up for a little breakup with my tele, and switched pickups here and there.

Nice sounds pethenis! Very nice playing too ( sloppy my butt - LOL )! I enjoy your ideas - "Someday After Awhile"?

thanks man! Yeah sorry, I shouldn't apologize for my playing, but everytime I hear myself recorded I realise I should practice more  >:( It also took me a while to just smile and say thanks to people, when they come up to you after a gig and say they liked it. Instead of going " no man, I usually play much better than this..."

I don't know "someday..."

Yes, this seems to be a problem with myself also. I guess it's pretty common amongst perfectionists. ;) What's really crazy is when you realize you're actually in a sense insulting the person doing the complimenting. It's basically questioning their judgement.

What is the skyliner tone stack?
(I used to have an HRM 50 watt but sold it. OD channel was amazing.)

Here's a write up from erwin I believe on another post on different OTS models that discusses the different tonestacks as well


Non Hrm classiq EQ is the oldest style of dumble amp. A bit more rooted in the
raw fenderish tone. This is the amp that made his reputation. This
would be like early Lindley, Browne, Lowell George, the first
incarnation of his amps.
It can sustain like a mofo! It is a singing OD for sure.
Not much compression, very touch sensitive and dynamic....

Second the Non-HRM Skyliner EQ  low plate is a variation of the above. Dumble modded
several of his older amps with a new tone stack he was developing,
know as the skyline eq because it's output viewed on a scope resembled
a city skyline.
It is a little less Fender but still a somewhat lower gain affair. It
has the same gain as the vintage amp but the new EQ is more "signature dumble" and a little less Fender. Improved cleans from th Vintage model.
It still sustains like a mofo, has a bit better string to string definition and is a little more refined in the tone shaping.

Non-HRM Skyliner EQ  high plate is where he went next, same as above but now the
gain staging is not classic fender. It has more headroom, definition, and punch, more lively and responsive cleans, smoother OD, and a small bit of compression, very touch sensitive, lots of sweet singing tones.

HRM Skyliner EQ   HRM stands for
"Hot Rubber Monkey". This is a second tone stack just for the OD
channel. It is more or less a Marshall style tone stack this allows tone
shaping of the OD independent of the cleans.
A real Dumble of this ilk would be called a Skyline HRM. Smooth as silk, goes from clean to mean like no ones biz. Transition
between is amazing. You can pick clean, a bit dirty, grinding, soaring, all
with your hand and all smoothly with definition. No rasp or buzz. Very refined. Gorgeous smooth tones. A little more compression that the above amps but not in a bad way. Very natural. The dynamic response is second to none. This amps feels like it breathes with you after awhile.
Smooth singing overdrive, completely dynamic, never any rasp or buzz, no IM distortion or other uglies.

Blues Master. Think raw early Fender/Marshall
tone on steroids. The tone stack is decidedly bassman territory,
however because of Dumbles many other difference it is far better IMO.
The cleans here are the best cleans I think I have ever heard, dumble
or otherwise. The cleans will sing and sustain!!! The OD is much less smooth and much less compressed than the above amps. It has some early Marshall vibe to it. Boosted cleans with this amp are to die for. The OD is a bit more raw and edgy then some of the other offerings but with boosted cleans you get the smooth side of things and with the OD you have a less polite and refined tone.
Somewhat like the first Dumbles, though different. Lots of punch, sustain and singing but not as smooth as some of the other offerings. This one can be thick and dense too. Not dark and crappy, just "meaty"...
Open clean cleans to mean and a little rude.
Big fat sick blues machine. Lots of character or soul. This amp will try and steal your girl.Like a tuxedo on a cowboy?.... It can play nice but it can still stomp in the dirt.
last is the same as above with the HRM OD tone stack which gives a little more tone shaping and refining in the OD section.





hope this helps!

Gregg

Thanks for the info Gregg...very useful
Sounds to me like I prolly need an OTS like yours...tasty!
I want to be able to switch between an OTS (with 2 X 12"EV's in closed back cab)
& my Super Reverb in the open back cab
At the moment I'm using the Super Reverb as a cut down head (I bought it like that)
with a 2 X 12" Laney slant front cab (sounds surprisingly good with the HH speakers)
I've got a Mojo cab for the Fender, but turns out the previous owner changed the
Super OPT to 4 ohms (which is sorta handy)
Just means I've gotta get four 16 ohm Webers for the Super Reverb cab
When I get the OTS I'll use it with the Laney box and get some EV's

I didn't see much mention made of the differences of the OTS with open or closed back cabs,
or the different responses when using humbuckers or single coils
I only worry because I bought one of those stereo Rivera racks once....it sounded
great with humbuckers, but I could never get a good sound with the Strat

Anyway, thanks again for the info

Great to hear all you ampheads responses and videos.
Sasquatch...I had a 50 HRM OTS with a Hermida 1x12 closed back frontported cab witha EVM 12L and a TOm Anderson strat(single coils). Sounded great.I imagine humbuckers sound great as well. (Carlton/Ford)Seems they use partial open oval back cabs. I also had a Fender Vibro-King.Awesome amp,but sold it. SO now I only have the 1x12 cab...no amp..no guitar..LOL.  (Out of work architect) Am thinking Im gonna get a 50 watt OTS Ford or a 50 watt HRM Bluesmaster. Any model OTS is gonna put a smile on my face though.THe HRM clean channel would be great for a traditional jazz player...(or put a Tubescreamer in front of it and Im sure it would be effective.)Like most of you guys ...Ive had fenders,marshalls and boogies and they are nice but there is something about a d-style amp that kicks it up anotch..and the ceriatones are soooo much amp for the money.Got to get another one.

Hey thanks fatfretter...I've got a similar prob..been out of work since Xmas
I had guitars & amp head but no box...I only just snaffled up the Laney box...had to
bring it back to the mountains on the train LOL
I'm just ebayin' some of my unwanted stuff to get the cash for an OTS
Yeah, I'm sure any version OTS would make me smile too

But I need a car....decisions...decisions...OTS or car?

Do any of you gear heads have any thoughts on the 183? I just listened to a track on youtube,sweet sound, not heavy like some of the hrm youtube videos. I do like the ojai videos and this ceriatone 183 reminded me of that although I think I recall Nik telling me the Ford OTS is most like the Ojai....Im not sure Im making sense but I havent heard much abou the 183 model.

What would be the difference between the Ford clean channel and the Bluesmaster clean channel straight from the Niks shop?
I listened to a youtube video of Eric Gale with a two-rock and the cleans he got were awesome.Fendery, old Hendrix with an edge but not gainey sounding.


Thanks

Well, my Bluesmaster clean is unmodded and it sounds just like Greg (Bold) and I have described them, and just like erwin's description that i reposted. Tweed Fender Bassman /Early Marshall JTM type sounds with a bit of Blackface that can be dialed in with the bright switch on, the mid boost off, the treble up, and the mid control way down, but you really need a strat or a tele to hear those "classic blackface tones" we all think about like SRV and early Hendrix and guys like that, and for me the c-lator and it's extra bright caps helped too, or an eq pedal set "SRV style" to brinng out the jangle. But really, in my opinion it's mainly about the tweed sound, and it can do sweet clean, boosted clean, PAB boosted clean, preamp cranked dirty, master volume cranked dirty, or anywhere in between and sound awesome doing it, as long as you bear in mind that it is bass heavy, and keep it under control. Depending on which guitar i am using i have to move the bass control around quite a bit, but the majority of the controls stay around the same, with some minor tweaking depending on my mood.

That being said, i have never heard one of the FM's in person, but it is a Skyliner stack which is a lil more classic D-Style, and is supposed to have alot more highs and be more chimey, which if you are looking for a bright sound right out of the box may be the one for you.


I'm not all that familiar with the #183 other than it is clone of Dumble #183, it uses a precision power supply, EL34 tubes, and has some other component changes from the standard OTS, I think it's a Skyliner stack if i recall correctly, but again i'm not sure. I know they sound great, that's all :) Bold or some of the other guys can chime in with more specs.


***edit i should point out that i normally use Weber 1265 Alnico speakers which are on the warmer side and do roll off/disperse the some of the highs due to their design, so i really have to work to get that blackface "sparkle" out of mine. when i had my old eminence legends in there, they had alot more highs in there and the BF sparkle came through, but they are super loud and VERY punchy in the lows, like organ damage causing, so i took em out. if you had some brighter speakers, like say some bright jensens, weber 12A150's, EV12's, or maybe some nice 10 inch type drivers it would prolly be a different story, IMO just FYI***
Gregg

Thanks Gregg. Appreciate your comments.
I have a 1x12 hermida ported cab,sealed back with an EVM 12L.Sold my HRM 50 watt so am looking forward to getting a Ford 50 or the HRM Bluesmaster. Sold my tom anderson classic type strat:(....economy was killin me. So am prolly gonna get a Suhr strat as well. The Tom Andersons are great too.
Do you have the stock transformer in your amp? If I wanted to upgrade to an Merc Mag transformer does Nik do that?
Thanks,
Jack

From what I've heard, Nik will get you the Mercs at cost.  Which is a good deal, but you will have to pay for shipping.  They are by far the heaviest part of the amp.