Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 25, 2024, 03:08:42 PM
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Ceriatone Forums are up and running!!!
 
Guests please register
Note: If you want to help you can donate to keep the forums alive.



Do you want to advertise on this forum ? Send me a private message.



Amplified Parts
+  Ceriatone Forum
|-+  Ceriatone
| |-+  Overtone
| | |-+  OTS Build Help - Overdrive Squeals
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: OTS Build Help - Overdrive Squeals  (Read 17296 times)
jeffhamula
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 29


View Profile WWW
« on: July 22, 2012, 12:10:39 AM »

I have received a lot of help from this forum.  After much pain and heartache (as well as some stupid mistakes), my OTS is up and running on the clean channel.  However the overdrive squeals in a really bad way and when the OD trim gets turned up it gets worse...  

Another forum member thought it would be appropriate to start a new thread and post pictures of the guts so that responses could be easily found for the next guy who runs into this problem.

This is my first amp build, as you will see in the pictures.

Thanks in advance for all your help!!!  


* OTS1.JPG (209.63 KB, 1188x792 - viewed 742 times.)

* OTS2.JPG (191.95 KB, 1188x792 - viewed 684 times.)

* OTS4.JPG (197.27 KB, 1188x792 - viewed 715 times.)
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 08:14:26 AM by jeffhamula » Logged

1992 American Fender Strat
Edwards jimmy page les Paul
1993 Fender Blues Deville 2 12
Ceriatone OTS (self built)
G12 65s in Marshall cab
1999 Fender Jazz Bass
Peavey tmax 210 15 amp
Pearl Export Drums
sduck
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 173



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2012, 05:15:56 AM »

So much crazy wiring - wouldn't know where to begin. You've got power wires running next to signal wires all over the place. Take a look at the commercial builds and HAD's builds and see how the wiring is on those - you really need it to be cleanly laid out as far as the wiring goes or you're going to get noise, hum and squealing. I'm not an amp tech, just someone who built one that works, so I don't know if this is fixable without a complete rewire.
Logged
plasticvonaband
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 747


Pickin and Grinnin since 1989


View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2012, 05:30:04 AM »

I agree. It may be tough, but a complete re wire may be in order. also check all your solder joints as well


Gregg
Logged

Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
jeffhamula
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 29


View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2012, 05:31:31 AM »

My clean signal sounds great with less hum than my fender or Marshall... Don't know if that helps.  But i am open to your suggestions.  So what would you rewire first?  What areas should I focus on?  Where are my biggest problem areas?

« Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 05:42:06 AM by jeffhamula » Logged

1992 American Fender Strat
Edwards jimmy page les Paul
1993 Fender Blues Deville 2 12
Ceriatone OTS (self built)
G12 65s in Marshall cab
1999 Fender Jazz Bass
Peavey tmax 210 15 amp
Pearl Export Drums
jeffhamula
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 29


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2012, 06:32:11 PM »

I don't know if this helps, but the signal is fine when I switch to od when the od trim or levels are very low. As I turn up Overdrive level it starts to squeal very high pitch.  Independently If I turn up the trim it is loud hum, ala motor boat.  Is there a voltage to check? Clean is very nice, and I can get great crunch with manipulating the channel.
Logged

1992 American Fender Strat
Edwards jimmy page les Paul
1993 Fender Blues Deville 2 12
Ceriatone OTS (self built)
G12 65s in Marshall cab
1999 Fender Jazz Bass
Peavey tmax 210 15 amp
Pearl Export Drums
T Wilcox
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 399



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2012, 10:42:22 PM »

Hey Jeff
From what I can see in the pics there appears to be some cold solder joints, particularily on the preamp board where you have landed the coax. I would def reflow those. Heat up those eyelets until the solder pools up like the ones Niks crew soldered.
Also as the other guys have mentioned some of the wiring is left a little longer than should be. When I build my amps I always aim to keep about a 1/4'' of separation between all the wiring when possible.
The wire that runs from the PS board to the preamp board and ties to the PI pot should be rerouted under the board if possible.
Also if possible maybe post some closeup pics of the wiring at the preamp tubes especially V2.


Todd
Logged

Plexi bass 1986 ( build #6 )
Ceriatone Ultra Champ ( build #5 )
TW Express clone ( build #4 )
Ceriatone HRM MK2 ( build #3 )
Ceriatone 2550  ( Build #2 )
Ceriatone OTS FM50 Modern Eagle Mod (Build #1)
EBMM Steve Morse original
50th anniv American Strat
jeffhamula
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 29


View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2012, 07:59:46 AM »


I recorded my amp to show you guys what is happening.

Also I rewired half the amp, routed every coaxial and most wires on the side of the pots.

The good: clean is awesome, and loud, master volume works, deep switch gets me a cool crunch that is responsive to the volume control.

The bad: no tone controls working, overdrive channel sounds terrible or buzzes/squeals.

I am starting to wonder if I have a bad relay or a damaged component, like my switch?

I'll post v2 pics in a minute....
Logged

1992 American Fender Strat
Edwards jimmy page les Paul
1993 Fender Blues Deville 2 12
Ceriatone OTS (self built)
G12 65s in Marshall cab
1999 Fender Jazz Bass
Peavey tmax 210 15 amp
Pearl Export Drums
T Wilcox
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 399



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2012, 04:55:09 PM »

Does your footswitch work and do the lights on it light when engaged?
If you have PAB engaged the tone controls do nothing!

Todd
Logged

Plexi bass 1986 ( build #6 )
Ceriatone Ultra Champ ( build #5 )
TW Express clone ( build #4 )
Ceriatone HRM MK2 ( build #3 )
Ceriatone 2550  ( Build #2 )
Ceriatone OTS FM50 Modern Eagle Mod (Build #1)
EBMM Steve Morse original
50th anniv American Strat
jeffhamula
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 29


View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2012, 06:03:24 AM »

Todd, the footswitch works, lights and everything. I understand the PAB ( I had the relay in their backwards) finally.
I am pretty confident that my main problem is some place isolated in the Overdrive Channel, but i have been staring at it so long, i probably missed something.

Here are the pictures of my attempt to clean up the wiring (thanks gregg/sduck) - especially the coax and spacing on v1, v2 and the pots on front.  I tried to re-solder a lot of stuff.

I tried just jumping the OD trim and it didn't do anything to alter the crazy noise.  I rewired and dressed the coax from the relay pcb....  Should i jump something else to try an isolate where my problem is?  How do you guys debug these things?

Running out of options, but I am obviously learning a lot.  I am going to gig this thing outdoors this weekend sitting on top of my blues deville combo.  Burn her in.   I will only use the clean channel (like I do with my fender).  If it fails, I will just plug the deville in.  I would sure like to get this overdrive channel figured out.  Maybe I should have started with an easier maiden voyage in amp building - I almost went Dizzy30 instead of this...


* 2012-07-24 23.27.30.jpg (174.63 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 707 times.)

* 2012-07-24 23.26.45.jpg (179.82 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 732 times.)

* 2012-07-24 23.30.27.jpg (255.73 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 681 times.)
Logged

1992 American Fender Strat
Edwards jimmy page les Paul
1993 Fender Blues Deville 2 12
Ceriatone OTS (self built)
G12 65s in Marshall cab
1999 Fender Jazz Bass
Peavey tmax 210 15 amp
Pearl Export Drums
T Wilcox
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 399



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2012, 06:02:00 PM »

Pins 7 and 8 of V2 look awfully close in the pic but it may just be the angle.
Other than that nothing obvious is jumping out at me.
Are all of your voltages matching the voltage chart?
Did notice some stray solder globs on chassis that you will want to get out of there.
Have you tried chopsticking with guitar plugged in to see if moving any of the wires around increases or decreased the hum/squeal?
You said the relay was in backwards, do your tone knobs work now?

Todd
Logged

Plexi bass 1986 ( build #6 )
Ceriatone Ultra Champ ( build #5 )
TW Express clone ( build #4 )
Ceriatone HRM MK2 ( build #3 )
Ceriatone 2550  ( Build #2 )
Ceriatone OTS FM50 Modern Eagle Mod (Build #1)
EBMM Steve Morse original
50th anniv American Strat
jeffhamula
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 29


View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2012, 05:11:37 AM »

OK, all my tone knobs work now. I scraped the chassis where the pots are, I tapped and moved wires with a chop stick (ears are ringing still) to no avail.  Pin 7 and are not touching. 

Here are my preamp voltages - where is says Jeff, thats me.
I put NIK in here for reference (his is first)

My OD voltage is wacky?Huh?

Tube   Type           Pin1      Pin3                  Pin6   Pin7   Pin8
                           
V1   NIK        191      1.7         200      1.6
   Jeff           140      1.5         141      1.4
V2   NIK        200      1.7         201      1.7
   Jeff           175      1.8         191      1.7
   Jeff OD   188      1.9         300   -8.3   56

V3   NIK       298      56         289      56
            Jeff       282      28         267      56

I guess my next step is to try and see if anything is touching on the backsides of the boards?Huh? 
Logged

1992 American Fender Strat
Edwards jimmy page les Paul
1993 Fender Blues Deville 2 12
Ceriatone OTS (self built)
G12 65s in Marshall cab
1999 Fender Jazz Bass
Peavey tmax 210 15 amp
Pearl Export Drums
T Wilcox
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 399



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2012, 07:36:11 PM »

Sorry about the ears!
Your voltages are low all around
What are you reading for HT and also at the OT CT?
Also are the voltages at V4 and V5 off as well?
At every ground did you sand or grind the white paint off to bare metal?

Todd
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 07:40:57 PM by T Wilcox » Logged

Plexi bass 1986 ( build #6 )
Ceriatone Ultra Champ ( build #5 )
TW Express clone ( build #4 )
Ceriatone HRM MK2 ( build #3 )
Ceriatone 2550  ( Build #2 )
Ceriatone OTS FM50 Modern Eagle Mod (Build #1)
EBMM Steve Morse original
50th anniv American Strat
erwin_ve
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 158



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2012, 01:10:30 PM »

Your wiring is the possible problem of the oscillations, they are on various points crossing other wires or sitting on them where they shouldn't. Not just 1 wire; all over.

The voltages; I couldn't see the colours of your dropping string correct; maybe post a better pic of that. However the last dropping string resistor; you have a 22k instead of a 2k2!
Logged
jeffhamula
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 29


View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2012, 05:33:30 AM »

I Am sorry for my ignorance, but what are the string resistors?  Tried to research that, and can't find anything I can relate to my build.
Logged

1992 American Fender Strat
Edwards jimmy page les Paul
1993 Fender Blues Deville 2 12
Ceriatone OTS (self built)
G12 65s in Marshall cab
1999 Fender Jazz Bass
Peavey tmax 210 15 amp
Pearl Export Drums
hywelg
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 896


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2012, 08:46:29 AM »

Follow the B+ from the rectifier and you will see a number of resistors in series which create the correct plate voltages for each tube. Each dropping string resistor creates a node, usually labeled B+1, B+2 etc. The big caps simply smooth out the AC ripple and for the purposes of testing can be ignored. Its easier to see how this is arranged if you look at a schematic rather than a layout. If you get one of these wrong then you will be dropping the voltage too much or too little and the tube will not function as designed. If you get one wrong early on it has an effect on all the nodes down the string.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.12 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!

CeriaTone Forum is not afiliated with Ceriatone Amplifications. The CeriaTone and name, logo and related trademarks and service marks, owned by CeriaTone. , are registered and/or used in the U.S. and many foreign countries. All other trademarks, service marks, and trade names referenced in this site are the property of their respective owners.