Ceriatone Forum

Hi everyone, new on here but have been lurking around after recently purchasing a slightly used Bluesmaster HRM 50 watt combo with an EVM. To be honest I bought this Ceriatone, my first I might add, on a whim without knowing much of anything about them other than they are D - Style amps made overseas of high quality. I actually didn't even investiagate any youtube clips till after I hit the BIN! Anyways, I'm a Fender guy by heart and love the sound of a pushed Fender ala SRV and early Colin James. My limited impressions with D - Style amps was that they are like Fenders with more umph but not too much to be pushed into Marshall territory. I found this to be true with the BM, but not at first..

Honestly when the amp first arrived I was somewhat quickly dissapointed. I spent four straight days tweaking the amp like I have never done before with any other amp. It even beat out the long standing tweaking record held with a Mesa Boogie Mark III from many moons ago! Usually I get right on a sound quickly and settle in. Again being mostly a Fender guy, there are way less choices/options to go at with them. The frustrating part with the BM was getting all three footswitchable tones to play nice together. When that fell through I focused on the Clean and the Drive w/PAB engaged 100% on both. At that point my ear told me something.. The magic held inside this amp lies within the clean channel pushed with the first volume knob set high. I should mention I play single coils (Strats). With this set-up all the Fendery sparkle I like was there, with a lot more balls, exactly what I wanted, A massive sounding Fender amp!

I'm over the fact I have an amp with a ton of options, but found only one real usable sound for my style. Hey, that's more than I can say about a lot of other amps that have come and gone over the years. Thanks for your time. HRK

Yes. I push the first volume knob on both clean and OD. Makes a huge difference. Currently it is set between 7-8 for the sweet spot that I like for the BM. I use strat and les paul.

Don't forget that this amp needs at least 50 hours to break in, maybe even 100 hours. Makes a huge diff, esp in the OD channel. You might like the OD better once it is broken in. Also tube rolls make a huge diff.

V1: RCA Short Grey
V2: TungSol RI
V3: Sovtek LPS

...works for me (thanks to others who post here)

Thanks, I'll try those tubes. I already replaced the JJ's Power w/ Svetlana C-Wings, took some of the fizz away. I think I have those RCA shorts somewhere??

 I fooled around with the OD a little more today and was able to get a nice Keef sound with some slap back but anything for searing leads is just too over the top for me. More of a vintage guy.

What about the scooped tone on the OD, any ideas? Or is that just the way it is?? Thanks, HRK.

There are three OD Trims internal that you can adjust. It does take a long time for the OD to break in. Don't give up on it. I ran music through my OD channel when I was at work. There is an OD trim on the back, but until it is broken in, all bets are off on settings. It changes alot during that time. But all the fizz will disapear.

I use the OD with my les paul. Sounds great and has lots of different amp settings.

The strat is through the clean channel.

Very verstaile amp, for my use anyway. We do lots of rock and blues covers. Nik steered me in the right direction with this amp.

Ok. Maybe I'll just throw the JJ's back in and blow through them.  ;D  I guess my daily little practice amp is going on vacation! Thanks, HRK.

The OD channel is incredible, but takes some fiddling to find the magic. For me, I never use the od channel without the pab engaged - otherwise you're running through 2 tone stacks, which leads to weirdness. And I needed to spend some time finding the magic settings on the internal TMB trimmers - I think I have the bass one at the just barely on setting, midrange on about 9 oclock, and the treble at around 1 oclock. Then it's just a matter of finding a balance the the 3 gain settings that work for you - I push the first volume control - 7 or 8 for a strat, 6 for humbuckers; the overdrive drive knob is set at 7, and the OD knob on the back is at 11 oclock - this combination is pretty intense for most stuff, but if you back off on the guitar volume you'll find the magic spot.

Agreed ^ It adds more than just gain, it adds highs, lows and general fullness. Again, not being in the know with these designs, I was under the impression I was going to use the pab like a solo boost but that ain't happening.

Although my original plan was to get into more of a plug-&-play type of amp this amp has grabbed my attention. Initial frustration has turned into a quest. I like that the sound is not generic and the fact it shows the individual character of different guitars.

I read statements on here where guys are comparing the od to that of a Marshall. I had a lot of Marshalls in my day and maybe at certain settings I can hear some Plexi tones, never 800 or newer.. I mostly hear cranked Tweed tones with that signature thick harmonic od. Actually this amp, the more I listen to it, reminds me of a Boogie Mark I, ala Carlos Santana. Even the clean channel, very Blackface Twin to my ears. I like it. This amp at 30-35 watts would be perfect.

The Marshall tones on the BM are more early type Marshall, so like a JTM 45, maybe Plexi-ish. Since the early Marshalls, like the JTM were based on Tweed Fender circuits, then the BM overdrive is more like a cranked tweed or early Marshall. The HRM stack, especially with the PAB engaged to bypass the first stack makes it sound slightly more Marshallish, especially if you tweak the HRM stack that way. Also, it is thought that the HRM and BM's OD were designed to be used with the PAB enaged, bypassing the main stack. If not you are going through two tone stacks instead of one which can sound like mud...

Gregg

Yeah, I was just playing it again and I'm starting to hear that. I was able to dial in a perfect Black Crowes (First Time To Say Goodbye) tone. I read somewhere that song was recorded with a cranked Victoria Tweed of some sort and a Marshall Jubilee.

Another thing is all my humbucker equippet guitars have hot pu's in them, JB's, Tone Zone, etc. The extra bass from those hot pu's are not helping matters. I need to get some low output paf's through this amp in order to find the ultimate sweet spot. My Strats sound superb. Time to break out the solder gun - There's work to be done! HRK

Also, when I pull the chassis, looking top front to back, where should these trim pots be/look like? Which is what.. T,M,B? Does it only affect the od? Thanks, HRK.

Only affects the OD. I can email the BM Manual or you can download it from ceriatone website. It clearly shows the layout of the internal OD trims.

Email sent.

Ok, thanks gigs.

I played the amp a lot today and it really does sound good. My wife even commented which is unusual. It's a little flubby in the bass but no worse than some vintage Fenders. My buddy has an old Bassman 4x10 and it too flubs on the low-end. It's considered the Holy Grail!

Pumping out Stones tunes in open G, I like the vintage tones I'm getting. I might hold off for a while with tweaking inside. It's like I wanna make changes just because the amp is somewhat different. It's growing on me though.

I would like to know if anybody was able to get the low-end flub out with the trim pot tweaks? Thanks,

HRK

Yes, this amp is really bass heavy. I have the front panel bass knob set on 2 1/2, and the internal trimmer just barely turned on. It's still got more than enough low end like this!

Thanks sduck, Would say there was some improvement? And how much % wise if you could? I too am crrently running the Bass on the front around 2 1/2 so by trimming it down inside what can I expect?

I don't think there is necessarily too much Bass now.. The thing is sometimes I hit the low E a little hard and hear some nasties like a weird overtone, no pun intended.  :D  Thanks.

HRK

My strat thru clean is fantastic.

The Les Paul was way too bassy in OD mode on the neck pup position. First thing I did was lower the pickup height of the neck pup (the low E string side) on the Les Paul which helped alot, to my surprise. So I have held off on adjusting the internal bass OD trim, but I will soon. Also my 2x12 cab was closed in back, so I took out one of the back panels which helped as well.

I tried the neck humbucker in my Charvel and agree it was way too bassy. But then again, I never use that position (neck hum) with the band. I use single coils for all my neck position stuff. But thanks for that advice anyways.

Starting to think I'm splitting hairs. Maybe I need to stop second guessing/comparing this amp and get along. Next gig (oct 13th) will tell a lot. Playing this amp at home is like buying a Corvette and never going faster than 55 mph. Of course unless you have the space and very tolerant family/neighbors. LOUD!

HRK

My Les Paul has Seymour Duncan's that I coil split. The neck pup in single coil mode is quite nice in OD mode on this amp. I use that position a lot for certain solos that need some extra thickness and still keep the chime (e.g. Europa). But even in single coil mode, the LP is way to bassy with this amp for the low E string and A string. otherwise it is fine for other strings/frets. In fact, it has quite a nice tone with the other strings at any fret.

Yes gigs it seems to be eq stock for single coils or low output pu's, jmo. Gonna replace the JB in my Charvel with a 59. Might be the ticket.

Just got done playing it again. Humor me and try these off the wall settings on the od channel:
pull Bright
first vol on 6
Deep - up position
Mid Boost - up position
Jazz setting on
Treble, Mid, Bass all on 10,
Gain 10
Level for overall volume
Presence off
od trim set to 9 o'clock or to taste.
Sounded like a hot rodded Fender but way more touch sensitive.
Also took some of the darkness away.
Gave a nice balance between Hum and singles pu's.
Plus I love an amp I can peg all the tone controls on! ;D

HRK

Update: Ok, so I stepped away from the OD channel on my BM for a while. I mean, I have it set up, but the clean channel on this amp is way to good to ignore. I ran some OD pedals through it and was able to get the perfect balance and tone I was after. Now you have to remember before I bought the BM I was all set to buy a Brownface Fender or a boutique tweed so I would of not had a OD channel to begin with anyways. As far as I'm concerned I saved money as the clean channel on the BM is almost, same or better than the Fenders I have played through. The pedal I settled on is a Tejas from PedalworX that I had for a few years. It's basically a 1:1 TS808 with the option of a bit more gain and sparkle. I'm also running a bit of delay for a slapback effect. With my Strat through the clean channel with the pedal on/off and my wha pedal - I can cover everything from Blues, POP, Top 40 and Classic Rock. I like this amp alot more this way. Now, I can get the OD channel hotter than the pedal, but not better. I have the OD channel set up for a few of the heavier songs we play where I need more sound to fill. Also with the bright pulled and the 1st volume down to, say 2 1/2 - 3 the clean channel on this amp is very tweed Bassman like. It loves pedal.

I like the OD on my BM for some things, but even after a couple of years of tweaking and tube rolling, i still just prefer to run my tri-boost into the clean channel and just drive it that way. I also have a clean boost on the other end, as the last pedal in my loop going thru the c-lator,  so i can push the PI and power section as well. Outside of that, i'm an admitted fuzz addict and use fuzz quite a bit as well :)

Gregg

I'm with you on that the BM takes pedals extremely well although when playing in a band situation, the OD channel is so much more musical. I use the pedals mainly for low volume playing when I don't need to crank it up too loud, and when I need something more crunchy for those rock moods...

This could possibly change after my first gig, but I'm thinking not, only a few more tweaks here and there. Got it up pretty loud at home already and heard what you guys are talking about with the effects loop at higher volumes. I'm bringing it to rehearsal Wed night but we only play at just above talking levels so no revelations will be made there. I fell asleep thinking about this last night, man we're a weird bunch, huh? Woke up this morning and ordered an American Overdrive pedal from Metal Pedals, a low-mid, very natural sounding midrangey pedal that I think is going to compliment this amp very well. Forgot to mention I threw a JAN 5751 in V1 and it lowered the gain and made the clean channel more acceptable to the pedals.

HRK

Not to mention running my delay on the clean channel bypasses the need to the use the effects loop and also negates the issue of overloading the signal. Simplicity is priceless :)

HRK

These Bm's are fun to tweak, aren't they? I still find new sounds that blow me away every couple of days or so  ;D

Another update: I've been focusing on the clean channel so I did a few speaker swaps. I noticed a lot of stiffness in the amp and narrowed it down to the EVM. While it's nice and heavy duty for the od channel, it does not lend it self to nice cleans where compression helps things out. I also noticed I had to pull the bright all the time to get anything half decent. On some positions it was too bright and started to drive me nuts, bright in, bright out, etc.. I had to fix this..

First in was a broken-in Weber 12f150 (50 watts) This speaker gave some very nice Blackface tones all over the place. Much better than the EVM and the dreaded stiffness was all gone. But, I still had to pull the bright knob to get the "spank." The od channel was ok, not as good as with the EVM, but not bad. I was half way there with this speaker.

Next went in a brand new Kendrick Brownframe, Their version of a higher wattage V30. Wow! Wow!! & Wow!!! No need to pull the bright anymore. With my Strat and a TS808 on or off it was Billy Gibbons city (think Jesus just left Chicago) So much character, perfect compression. Awesome Texas Blues tone. Better than two Victoria tweeds I have owned in the past! People pay big dollars for this type of tone. With some slapback it was dripping tonal goodness and the speaker is not even broken in yet! I'm still tweaking, took a break to write this. I'm gonna put another JAN 5751 in V2 to try and get a little more headroom in the od channel. Already have a 5751 in V1. If I can't - this is way good enough.

Why am I writting this? Because I believe not everybody who buys this amp wants to play Jazz Fusion all day. I think some people like me buy this amp and are dissapointed because it could be so off the mark compared to the more popular designs. I personally, like most here have never played a real Dumble. The tone in my head is more Fender, mostly tweeds. Maybe I made a mistake buying this amp in the first place, but now I'm starting to think not.

Bottom line: this amp can be anything from Jazz to Classic Rock and everything in between. It's a beautiful platform to create different tones. Most classic and boutique amps are judged on their cleans. You can always add od from outside sources. But the holy grail cleans are inherent of the design. This amp has some magic going on in that regard.

HRK

Also, I found a little sweet spot on the clean channel and it's a great starting point so you are not chasing your tail. Run your T,M,B all at 12 o'clock and crank your Presence all the way up. Dial in the first volume depending on how loud your gonna be playing. Usually between 2 1/2 to 4 you can avoid the flubby bass syndrome. This in theory adds your low end, tweak it to your likings. Then just use the master for your overall volume. But, as you turn up the master - this and volume 1 begin a balancing act. I also notice best not to engage the deep switch as you will be getting natural bass from pushing the amp a bit. The mid boost is personal preference. I like it engaged with external overdrives off and on with no od. All of this in the Rock mode of course. Fwiw, this set-up worked with all the speakers swaps I did. I know for some guys on here this is amp 101 but this for the guys like me I mentioned in my last post. Good luck and happy tone hunting.

HRK

I normally keep the bright pulled on mine, but i have warmer speakers, too. Also, in regards to the OD, whebn i use itm i normally keep my HRM bypassed, so that my OD tone matches my clean tone pretty well, again pretty much building on the clean tone. Also, I have found that when using the c-lator i like it better with the output turned up to about 1 o clock, and the masters adjusted to the appropriate level for the venue. Pushes the PI nicely and brings out the punchiness and spank of the amp :)

Gregg

I couldn't get comfortable with the bright engaged 100% of the time. Sounded good clean but when I introduced any type of gain it suffered. At a gig I can't be bothered. I have to focus on my playing.

Anyways, I tried the JAN 5751 in V2, didn't like it. Just keeping the one in the V1 spot. I'm very happy with the set-up now using mainly the clean channel since installing that Kendrick speaker. It gave the amp the mojo it was somewhat lacking. It's like the amp was designed with it, can't say enough good things. I worked a little with the od channel too but so less fleibility there. I dialed in a killer raunchy Blues tone (hence why the call it the Bluesmaster! ;D) but then you're kinda pigeon holed with a single sound using the guitar's volume knob for solos. Nothing wrong with that too, depends what your needs are I guess. If I was doing straight Blues/Rock Blues I would be all over that sound. Anyways, I can honestly say today is the first day I started to really like this amp.

HRK