Ceriatone Forum

Hi folks,

I am a new member but a fellow DIY enthusiast. I have built a couple Weber kits and the Hammond Firefly little 1W amp and too many guitar pedals to count. I just wanted to say Hi and express my thanks in advance to the Ceriatone forum and community.

I just ordered two overtone amps from Nik. One of each, the special and the HRM. I am having trouble deciding which models to build because of the different versions listed. Can anyone point me in the right direction as the the differences between each of the models. I know there is probably multiple other threads discussing this.

Thanks again,

Scott

Well, what kind of music are you into playing? You made a good start on the OTS and the HRM, though

Those are two great places to start. I could only choose one to start and went with the HRM, which is a great amp with many sonic possiblilities. However, I will always be curious to own/play a straight up OTS. In your case, beyond what you'll have, venturing into the 183 territory is something to consider. Personally, I would like to find out what one based around EL34's and the precision power supply would be like.

You said " which ones to build "
What did you order exactly? because as far as I know kits are not available as of 6-15-11.

Did you order before that date?

Todd

I did manage to order before the cutoff date. That is what inspired my order. Before I built my first amp I wanted to build an Overtone but knew I was way over my head. I started with a 5e3 deluxe and a marshall 36watt from Weber and when I saw Ceriatone was going to be changing it up I knew this was time.

I ordered two kits. A big investment on my part. I play all types of music and gig actively with jazz groups, a top 40 band, and teach during the week. I guess I am just struggling with what "series" to build.

I was thinking a stock Overtone special and then maybe one with el34's? I'm not sure because I do not know what the sound is going to end up being. I have watched a ton of youtube videos but I guess I was just looking for some wisdom that maybe some of you had.

Cool man

I have the FM50 ME and its great! I am also in process of building the HRM MK2.
What kind of guitar / pups do you use mostly?
From what I hear all of these are good with Humbuck's but not so much with singles except the BM unless they are modded somehow.
The only person that knows every model that I know of is Nik. So it may be a good idea to email him explaining the type of tone you are after and see what he says. Theyre are several mods not listed on the site that he will do as well ie. the John Mayer mod etc.

Todd

I go back and forth between single coils and humbuckers. My main guitars are a 70's strat with noisless pickups and a RI 58 les paul (warren haynes) with burstbuckers. So I know that doesn't help too much hahaha. But, I guess I will just have to experiment.

They arrived today so I guess I will build the stock overtone and the HRM model. Wish me luck!

So I am on the way with my OTS 50 build and I have a few questions. I have been reading on the forum for a few hours and cant seem to find what I need.

Is the bus bar "floating" above the pots? As in only being held by its connections to components/pots.

On the ceriatone layout there is a numbering system for all the connections like "b13, b14, f3, f5, ect". Whats the story with all of these? I feel like I am missing out on some sort of build guide haha.

Where do I use shielded leads? I am assuming on pins 2 and 7 on v1.

I have built a 5e3 and a 6m36 but the wiring of the input jacks and control pots confuse me. It seems like everything is connected. On the NOR input jack it seems like the tip is connected to ground at all times by the green wire connected to the black wire labelled A going to pin 2.
I am looking at Rob Livesey's pictures of his build and it seems like he is wiring the master, ratio, and level pots with the green connections on the layout being ground? I am confused.

Let me know if there are some better pictures to be looking at for a reference of lead dress and how to wire up the controls. Or maybe a helpful thread that covers stuff like this that I have missed.

I have appreciated reading your findings on other threads T Wilcox and SoundPerf. Thanks in advance.

Hey

1. Yes the bus bar is floating and held by the connections! it will be very secure once you have them all soldered. I actually just did mine on my HRM yesterday.

2. Not sure about numbering system but more lettering. There are 2 of each, so in other words where you see A at one point a wire will go from it to the A at another point and so on. The way to route the wire is on you or you can check pics at Ceriatone site.  Edit: ok just checked layout for your OTS50 and it does have a numbering system of some sort for most every wire. Not sure what it is and would have to say it is unnecessary for the build, I built the FM model and did not need to use any such system if that helps. Probably a way for Nik to help troubleshoot over the email with someone ( check the connection at B-14 )

3.No build guide but on my first one the build video http://www.overtonehrm.com/
helped out quite a bit.

4. If you look at the layout where the wires land at the level, ratio and master pots you will notice there is a little circle where the wire splits off. that is the shield and anywhere you see that it is to be a shielded cable. Take wire x for example, at the other end where it meets the board the shield is cut off. The shield is only grounded at one end! Not at pins 2 and 7 but where they meet the terminal strip the wire labeled A and B would be the ungrounded side of the shielded cables.

5. The cliff jacks are such that when jack is inserted the ground is lifted. They are called shorting jacks but they actually open the circuit when jack is inserted. The layout is correct. Make sure you wire exactly as pictured. Check the pics on the ceriatone website as well, they are very helpful for doing this build.

6. Not sure about Rob's build where are you looking at this? Not looking at your layout I beleive the green connections you speak of are the shields which will be grounded and the center lead of coax's  goes to  othere terminals on pots.

7. I had trouble understanding how to lead dress the RG-174 on my first build, there is a thread from me asking about it. Do a search here ( RG-174 ) it should pop up and if I recall there was very good advice on it.

Watch that video I linked and then check pics at Ceriatone site and if you have further questions feel free to ask

Let me know if anything here doesn't make sense and I will try to explain further

One last thing, before reposting in this thread, start a new thread labeled need help with new OTS50 build. This will help future builders, atleast if Nik ever brings back the kits

Todd

Todd pretty much covered things, but to reiterate the point of the build pics on the Ceriatone site. I downloaded everyone and had them at the ready to view while building. Also, before each build session, I would sit and look closely at the photos of the section(s) I was planning on working on before even starting.

One more thing I will add is to start on the outside and work your way in. In other words try to get everything done that you can without the preamp and PS bd's in yet. Especially the input jacks and mini toggles, then add the relay bds. This is just my way of doing this and others may have built these the opposite but I find it much easier this way. Let me rephrase much less difficult.

Todd

wow, That is a TON of help. Thank you so much for your help Todd and Chris. It is most appreciated. I will let you know when I have the next batch of questions.

Again, Thank you.

Scott

The other numbers on the layout are just for identification purposes, so everyone knows exactly which wire is being discussed.

I found the wire-coloring confusing until I realized not to take it too literally.
What's this 5 inches of blue for???  Whatever you want.  A blue wire in the layout could be green in the photos, for example.  I thought each color had some specific role, but no, if Nik doesn't have blue, he'll give you purple.

Another tip mentioned elsewhere on this forum - don't cut-to-length the wires from the OT to the tubes, until AFTER you've connected them and turned the amp on for a test. If the amp squeals like a pig when you power up, reverse those wires. For some people, the layout is backwards.
SoundPerf says it has to do with the phase of the PT.

Other than that, if you follow the layout and photos carefully, you'll be fine.  Other than the OT wire reversal, my first build went perfect - and I have a lot less electronics experience than you.

As for how the amps respond to humbuckers vs single coil - it does seem the amps like humbuckers better - at least at bedroom levels.  My OTS sounds a lot different cranked up at gigs than at home.  At home, my humbucker guitar sounds fab, but when I try it at gigs, I always end up back on the Strat.  Most of the UTube vids are at lower levels.

Something else to be aware of, to get max clean headroom, you don't turn the MV up full and the preamp down, the way you would on most amps. Max clean headroom is achieved with MV at 11 o'clock or so, and the Volume at about 2 o'clock.

These amps are quite sophisticated and complex compared to most others.  It takes some experimenting to get the best out of them.

Guitar hack is correct regarding those OT primaries, seems you have a 50% chance of getting them backwards.

Here are a couple pics of my build progress just before I put the preamp board in. It is an HRM MK2 so a little different but method is the same.

Another thing I just relearned the hard way is to put/insert the relay in the board directly below the deep/mid boost switch before installing the switches. There is not much clearance there.

Anyways keep us informed if you have any more questions.

Todd

2 more pics + another tip, use Loctite blue threadlocker on all nuts and bolts to keep everything tight for the long run.

Todd

Man, that's really looking good, Todd. You should just about be a "Guru" by the end of this and the TW.  ;)

So the MKII has snubbers on V2? I'm really going to want to hear your opinion on this amp once it done. One thing I've been always curious about is how the V2 snubbers would effect the sound of a HRM.

Thank you so much guys. Lots of great advice and pics. I will have to take out the switches to get that relay in but shouldn't be a problem. Already answered my question with the pics, I didn't know if I should do transformers first of the boards.
Thanks for letting me know about the transformer. That is going to be a HUGE help.

The relays are oriented different from IC's I have seen before. Usually pin one is the closest to the key or notch on the socket. In the pics I have seen they are opposite (wilcox above). Which way should the relays be oriented?

How have you folks wired up the light? Any suggestions?

Does the bottom tab on the footswitch jack connect to the top lug (casing of jack)for a ground connection?

Thanks for your help guys, I am loving this forum and can't wait to give back.

Alright team. I think I have her all wired up and 99% done.

I wired the light by running two wires from the heater tag board up to the light is this correct? I am used to fender lamp style assembly's so I just want to double check.
Still dont know about the orientation of the Relays or the footswitch ground connection. So help out if you can.

Heres some pics!

Really nice work for a first D build!

If you look at the relay there is a large gap between the pins then 3  that are closer together.In other words it should look like this : :::
Then look at the socket, it will have the same gap. May need to loosen and move out of way the mini toggle above the inner relay to get it in safely.

Yes, you must run that wire between the ground and center bottom term on the footswitch.

Pilot light is correct BTW

Dont forget your coax run from the OD trimpot to bd.

In one of the pics V3 black heater wire looks really close to the nut, could just be pic but make sure there is clearance

Let me know if I can help further, PM if you want a quicker answer as it will hit my email

Todd

Nice job. Nothing like taking pride in your work.

Update when you get it going.

Damn thats nice! :)

Thanks!

Nik

Wow, thank you everyone for all the help in getting this baby going. Its firing on all six cylinders and sounding monstrous.

I started with a pair of Winged C 6L6's and tungsol 12ax7's. After a half hour of playing, my keys fell on the amp and since the head wasn't finished yet, smashed one of the brand new winged C's. FML!! So for now I have a pair of JJ's in the power section.

She is sounding good. I haven't had too much time to play it lately due to life happenings but I am really excited about it. Still figuring out how to tweak everything but it all sounds awesome.

Thank you so much everyone, it is truly appreciated.

Scott

ps- i will update later when the cab is finished looking good.

Cool!! They sure are a joy.

Sorry to hear about the broken tube. I know the whole time I was using mine without a head cab, I was dreading breaking tubes.

Some Quick Pics!

The cabinet is African Padauk which is a beautiful red colour. The blonde faceplate is figured Aspen. Natural tung oil on both. Turned out amazing and I am loving it!

beautiful cab!!

Wow -- that looks fantastic!

Thanks guys.
It took me and a mentor wood builder alot of time to build it. Padauk is a really dense hardwood and it was difficult to work with. It is also slightly toxic hahaha. This equals "deadly tone".  hahahaha :chairdance:

Nice job! :)

Wow, super work!!  :o