Ceriatone Forum

Finally finished it yesterday at about 7pm. I reckon about 20 hours in total but since this was only my second amp build I reckon I would be much quicker next time. Much quicker than the 11 week wait for a built version!

Not as neat at the factory built versions but I'm happy with it. Its gone to my amp tech now for testing and powering up, setting the PI balance and biasing. I do hope he does it quickly!

It looks cool but those black cables,.... I would put it under the board.

 ;)

I did try it that way, but the angle it had to go to get down under the board from the FET trimmer position was a little too extreme for the 2 core shielded that I'd got to use.

 :-X


 ;)

wow, you have finished already! well done!

A fairly intensive effort at the weekend!

Congratulations!
It looks like a clean build, so should be no problem for the Tech.
Couldn't see the fillamentwires very well so don't know about that.

Here are mine :
(http://www.bluegate.nl/Images/CT/CT17.jpg)

(http://www.bluegate.nl/Images/CT/CT18.jpg)

Just got it back from my amp tech and had a short play with it. Clean seems to be very dry and lacking 'sparkle' at home volume levels (master 1½ ish) I tried it for a short period at 4 and its much better. My tech biased at 35mA and I'm wondering if the onset of breakup will be earlier if I bias it a little hotter.

I'm going to try my Hotplate in line later (its getting late here now so I'd better wait till tomorrow!) to see if I can get master to 4 at sensible volumes, though thats not what I wanted the amp for, I need it to do the business at rehearsal and gigging volumes. I have been investigating Power Scaling and would be very interested to hear of anyones experiences.

I prefer the OD trimmer set low and the ratio 9 o'clock ish. Though the OD is really nice for a solo lead sound when wound up a little more its not so good for chords then, I think I'll be experimenting with my OD pedal to achieve that and keep the OD channel pretty clean.

The FET input is nearly unuseable with my Ibanez335, it just starts to feedback at any opportunity. Have't had chance to try an acoustic yet as I don't own one.

So far with my 4x10 Jensen P10R cab its sounds warm and not overly bright but that changes as you wind up the master, I need more time with it and to try using the speakers in my Fender Twin Amp (fender 'special' design though I suspect there's very little special about them). I need to borrow a g12-65 cab to see what its like.

Congrats on the build.  Give it a chance to burn in a bit before doing too much.  Make sure all your voltages are within range.  You can bias a little warmer so try that but watch for redplating. 

Chords?? What are those?  LOL   Dumbles don't do chords, sorry.

Masking tape is the preferred solution to the FET problem.

NO CHORDS! ARRGGGGGGGGHH!!!!

Just spent 10 minutes with my strat and the Hotplate, master on 5 preamp vol on 5 and boy does it sing, its just on the verge of breakup on 5, switch to OD and it bites, hit PAB and it takes it up another level. I can't wait to get it to a rehearsal and use it without the Hotplate. I also tried the FET input with the strat, its got Fralin Vintage Hot pups and the FET  cahnnel was much more controllable, not sure its'll be of much use though unless I use A/B switching and I'm not sure that the inputs can be used that way.

Making a start on the headshell on Sunday.

Just finished for the day. Headshell cab is assembled. Just need to attach battens for mounting front and rear fascia panels and then I can get it covered. First cab is going to be Fender Black tolex with nickel/chrome fittings. Considering Blonde with black fittings for number two. Then I'll decide which to keep. I really would like to get a brown/cream faceplate to go with cream chicken head knobs, but i guess thats just being obsessive!

I think I might have positioned the chassis about 5mm too far back. I wish I could get a really good photo of a D style head, or if someone could tell me how far back the face plate should be.

You're on you way.  It looks good but yes the chassis is back a wee bit much.  However, once tolexed it's going to look great.  I like 1.8~2.0 cm depth. 

Like this.   (note... this one doesn't have the control panel cutout)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/candhh/Overtone2.jpg

I was looking at the Two-Rock and trying to gauge the set back dimension.

http://two-rock.com/photos/cl/cl1.jpg (http://two-rock.com/photos/cl/cl1.jpg) looks like 25mm 'ish

and the D'Lite

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-89931406377916_1998_4061762 (http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-89931406377916_1998_4061762) which looks nearer to 30-32mm to me.

I think the 18-20mm set back you use will only work without the cutout. My cutout is 20mm deep.

 I was also constrained a little by the fact that I already had birch ply in 268mm width so I placed the OTS equidistant from front and back. Maybe it was a little too wide at 268mm. Its not too late to move it all forward.

Did you make the cabs? What glue did you use for that blonde. The blonde I can get seems very thick and rubbery and whilst I've used both contact adhesive and PVA in the past I'd rather use PVA anyday, but I'm aware that some stuff it won't stick well enough. I think its to do with the cloth backing. Fender Black seems a lot thinner and is fine with PVA.

Cabinet looks nice, though it is styled after a later model Dumble. Here is a collage I put together to show the different chassis and cabinets Dumble used.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/ic-racer/spotters_guide3-1.jpg)

Brilliant, thanks. I think I'm going to modify my template to increase the cutout width  since the TR and D'Lite seem to be narrower and cover the pre-amp volume knob. I'll probably move the chassis forward 5mm aswell. Any idea how wide the aluminium strip is it looks like ¾-1" to me? (mixed units again, sorry) Whats the overall depth of your cabinet ?

I'm not trying to copy a Dumble exactly, just want to get it to look similar.

I was not sure of  the measurements on the original, but I used 1/8 inch by 3/4 inch aluminum with counter sunk screws for mine and it looks very close. I see what you mean about the cutout, my cabinet does not have it correct. I don't have a wood working area, so I just did some mods to Nik's Ceriatone cabinet.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/ic-racer/DSCF3860m.jpg)


Here is a closeup of a real Dumble for comparison:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/ic-racer/RealDumble.jpg)

Yes, I make all my cabs.  I use a spray PVA that I get here in Japan.  It works well and only requires a few minutes to gas off but you only get one shot at laying it down so.... no mistakes.


Nice medley of D pics IC. Thanks.

I use water based PVA , mostly, its very cheap since its used in the building trade a lot, approx $30 for 5litres. Being water based you've plenty of time to adjust allowing you to cover a cab, no matter how big, in one piece. I do prime the wood first with a diluted version of the same glue (5:1 dilution) If it dries off in parts you can just wet it with more glue. I use a small decorators roller to apply it to the material. I have had problems however with some material, which had a polypropylene backing and it didn't stick too well with PVA. If I use that again I think it will have to be a thixotropic contact adhesive.

i haven't thought about how i will make the cab yet. I think i will make it from red fake suade. It will probably look real tacky but at least it will be individual.  How do you cover an amp?

Apparently real suede is not that expensive and you can use PVA to glue it on. I was talking to Jeff Lewis of Matamp  www.matamp.co.uk (http://www.matamp.co.uk) on a visit a few months back and he said told me about the leather and suede, though aparently its not that durable, especially suede, tolex type hard vinyl is much more durable.

It does take some practice to get the corner mitres correct so I'd practice on some scrap first. The thing about hard vinyl is that you can move it about quite a bit by warming it with a hot air (paint stripper type ) gun, when it cools its will pretty much stay put. The more stretchy stuff won't stay put after it cools, it keeps pulling apart. There are lots of people on t'internet selling 'tolex' that isn't and I don't yet know how you tell, but if when cold you can stretch it much its going to be difficult to work with. Marshall stuff is pretty reliable or so it seems. I also had some black from here http://www.ampcomponents.co.uk/hardware.html (http://www.ampcomponents.co.uk/hardware.html) which was fine but the red wasn't, I had to send it back!.

I've also had some samples from http://www.allparts.uk.com/coverings-tweed-tolex-c-277_297_446_455.html?p=shop (http://www.allparts.uk.com/coverings-tweed-tolex-c-277_297_446_455.html?p=shop) and I intend getting some Fender Blonde, but I'm a bit wary because it does seem quite thick, but it is cheap enough, probably as cheap as anywhere in the UK.

Looks really good. What are those black cables? I built one from scratch a few months ago and now I  think I'm going to have to add reverb. I just can't live without it. 

John

The black cables are the shielded cables from the original trimmer pot (FET and O/D) positions to their new locations on the rear panel.

I'm also thinking about reverb and am interested in a TC G Sharp since i can also then get rid of my chorus pedal off my board (its a Boss and none too clever) , but I'm not sure about mounting it in the front of the cab like eriwebnerr has done , see this thread.

http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=330 (http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=330) . I'm trying to think of a way to hide it

I'm also trying to find out more about the G Sharp, until it came up on here I knew nothing about rack mount effects and I've always steered clear of multi-effects units since previous experience has shown them to be tone suckers, admittedly I'm talking of the likes of Zoom, Korg etc, that go in before the amp.

Hi. Well done on your build.

Considering having a go at building one myself, save time and money against waiting for a complete amp from Nik.

Could you tell me what documentation comes with the amp kit?

Also, what is involved in building from kit form?

Replied in other thread. You will get the kit quicker than a built amp, but please don't do it to save money!! It'd be better to go to work for an extra 20hours and pay Nik! You will get a lot of pride from doing it though AND you won't be daunted to try out some of the many mods that have been talked about here , afterwards.

The documentation is limited, though there is a parts/packing list which helps to identify stuff based on quantities in the pack, but if I did it again I'd go through it and either identify every item by codes written on them or measure their values with a meter (resistors and capacitors if your meter will do that). In conjunction with the layout its not difficult to determine whats what if you approach it logically (eg. the pot values and whether they are audio or linear).

Best of luck (actually no don't rely on luck!!!)

hywelg, have to ask, where in the country are you?

I'm guessing from your Matamp comment that you're from the UK...am I right?

I ask because I'd love to be able to try out an Overtone before ordering...

Yes I'm in the Uk, Nottingham if thats any use to you. The amp is finished, but the cab isn't yet. I'm hoping to get it done over the weekend, Ive' got all the parts so with the extra day off on Monday it should get done. You're welcome to give it a go if you're close.

Cheers

Hywel Harris

Finished the cab now. I'm well chuffed with it.

Beautiful job!  :D

JT

yeah that realy lloks nice.

 8) Wow, that looks stunning!

Thanks guys. I went for the Two Rock look in the end, I reckoned that the wood bar would be easier than the aluminium strip.

The cab belongs to my Fender Twin which I separated into a head and cab, which I'm now going to sell since its really is p**s poor compared to the OT. I think I'll build another slightly bigger cab that stands on end like the TR cabs and fill it with G12-65's.

I will post a head cab drawing as soon as I can update it to take account of all the mods I did as I went along.  It will be an easy job to adapt to make a combo, just longer sides plus larger section battens to mount the baffle. I quite fancy a combo but am unsure whether a 1x12 will do the amp justice

Great job - love the cosmetics you chose as well!!

When you say you'll post a head cab drawing, do you mean a design plan - cos that would mean I could get a decent joiner/carpenter to build one from your plans, rather than paying the extra an amp builder charges...

My original plan was to make two head shells and cover one in black and one in blonde to see which I liked. Problem was, when I actually got to think about it, if I liked the blonde then I'd have to recover my 4x10 in blonde, then I'd have to recover my 5w SE to match. So I got sensible.

So I now have two covered in black, one of which is available. PM me if interested. I'm in the UK

The plan I've got is done in CorelDraw and I've put the various parts on different layers. I'll post it as a PDF but I need to work through the minor mods that I did whilst building it and include them and then work out how to show all the parts clearly on a single 'layer' pdf doc. If you can use CorelDraw I can easily let you have a copy of the original file.

Would this fit a DC30 too?  They seem a similar size- I'm in UK too if it will fit - mail me at mitch.keen@newcollege.ac.uk - Cheers! Mitch.

I might be, depends on price - I'll PM you now...

Hey hywelg -

Just perused this post and, man, do you do nice work!  ;D Very nice shots of your head and speaker cab. You're quite the craftsman, buddy.

Do you build cabs or do some form of woodwork for a living or is it just part of your hobbies? Forgive me if you said something on this and I just missed it.

Once again, great work, bro!

Ken
 

Even if the DC-30 fit your controls would be upside down.

hywegl, you have mail...

Thanks kenster,

No its just a hobby, just like building amps, and guitars etc........(thank god for Warmoth and Ceriatone I say otherwise I'd only be in the pub!) I actually make stained glass windows (domestic only) for a living and I've got a really nice workshop where I can make a mess!!

The DC30 deeper than the OT by about 20mm I think and whilst it could be made to fit since the other dimensions are OK the current back panel arrangement wouldn't work. It would have to be lower at the top if you see what I mean.

If anyone is interested, I knocked up a drawing of the front faceplate to use as a crib sheet for gigs etc. I've done it full size, but don't rely on the hole centres being correct, its only for marking your settings on, not for making new faceplates!

Attached as a pdf you can quite easily print it to an A4 piece of card and get it laminated if you want to re-use it.

Well. my OTS has just done its first gig. From where I stood it sounded good and with my strat it sounded marvellous just breaking up nicely. It really makes a difference to get it wound up.

My settings were

6½, On On, Rock, 7,6,4, 2½, 7, 5,7. OD trimmer a shade under 3 o'clock. HotPlate on -8dB.

I just wish I could have heard it from out front.

Is that right - trimmer at about 3 o'clock??  That seems pretty high compared to other users (usually 9-11 o'clock or so I have read).

Oops I don't mean three o'clock I mean 9 o'clock, Its three o'clock when I lean over and look at it upside down!!!

what way are we looking at it? Upside down to me would be when the amp is upside down, the trannies pointing up into the air making all the controls upside down. For me, with the amp up right so i can service the amp with the chassis open up and facing the sky, with me looking at the trimmer from the transformer side of the amp, my trimmer would be at 2:00.

I've got my trimmer mounted externally on the rear panel and whenever I'm tweaking it I'm leaning over from in front of the amp, looking at it upside down!.

ah of course!

Well I figured out tonight that the presence control is doing absolutely nothing on my amp! Need to get it on the bench at the weekend and get to the bottom of this problem.

I have read every post on this forum especially the mods that Jack Zucker, ic-racer, mondoslug and others have been recommending and I especially recall, I think it was JZ saying that these tame the sharp ice-pick treble on the OD channel. Well I've not been experiencing  that much treble and where others have given details of their settings, Treble has been around 3-4 where I've had mine 7-8 and I still thought it lacked a bit of sparkle especially the high mids. I thought it was my speaker cabs, then I swapped pre-amp valves and started fiddling and found the non-operational presence control. I guess thats why I'm finding it lacking that bit of sparkle.

We'll see what it does for the tone when I nail the problem!! I just hope its something obvious like a wrong value component(which means theres another one wrong somewhere else aswell !!) or a missed connection.

The presence control has a big effect, so check all your wiring. I even copied the exact hookup and values and put it in a Fender conversion and it has a big effect.

Here is a picture of the back of my presence control that may be of some help.

Schematic...

Well I've taken it out of the box and everything looks as it should do. I tested the 4 Ohm tap on the OT since thats where the neg feedback loop originates from and I am getting output there.

Will get it on the bench now and see if a meter can find anything, otherwise its off to my amp tech for some serious debugging.

i find that the presence control doesnt do all that much untill it gets to about 9ish. I also have my treble between 3 and 9 depending on my mood and i find the amp doesnt have lots of brightness. Mostly becuase of the characteristics of the bass. Having said that, there is a lot of super high highs at times. But then again, i am using V30s and not the standard 65 most people tend to use.

I just wanted to clarify that on my amp the presence makes a big difference when in OD. When in clean, there is not that much of an effect.