Ceriatone Forum

Sometimes, i think i have too much downtime and time to think. I was thinking of how the OD channel works on a D style amp, basically cascading V1 in to V2 to increase the gain and push the pre amp into OD (simplified, but a basic description). I was also thinking that when the OD channel is engaged on an HRM style, that both tonestacks are engaged, unless, of course the PAB is engaged, which lifts the Preamp tonestack, as we all know. Most agree that the "magic" or "mojo" of the OD channel comes thru best when the OD and PAB are both engaged on both HRM and Non HRM style amps. I was thinking about this, and reading some threads on ampgarage about the HRM tonestack and a lightbulb went off.

On an HRM style amp, when you engage the OD channel with the PAB off, both tonestacks are active; as one poster (i can't remember who) put it, with both tonestacks active it's muddy as hell and i tend to agree. i have yet to find tone settings i dig on the OD channel with the PAB off.

Now, i know that this is probably not an original idea, but i am going to attack the HRM tonestack as a completely separate entity, that is once i get the clean settings the way i want it (and i am darn close), i am going to tackle tweaking the HRM tonestack with the PAB engaged until i find the settings i really dig, and then with the use of my MEGA PAB mod do a little tweaking that way.

I'm  thinking that having the HRM tonestack more easily accessible, say like on the front of the amp is a great idea if it is approached this way, basically thinking of the post OD tonestack as having a totally separate eq tone stack for each channel, and that way the two tone stack aren't fighting each other or walking on each other. Again, probably not a new way of thinking, but i just thought i would put it out there, in case someone else hadn't thought of it, or might find it useful...

ok i think that made sense... have a lovely day, ya'll!

 

I've had some thoughts along this line too. Being locked into one od tone, no matter how excellent it is, doesn't seem like an ideal situation. What I'd like to do is find some empty space on the bottom or back of the chassis, room enough for 3 small pots, and drill holes, and install some pots, and sub them for the trimmers that are buried inside the amp. Finding a good place is the trick I think - you'd want the wire run to be fairly short, and away from other electrical interference. Hmmm...

Hi Guys, I build an amp with a HRM board with pots instead of trimmers. Instead of mounting it on top of the component board, I put in under the board, with the pots trhout the chassis so that I was able to adjust the pots with the chassis mounted in the amp head cabinet. Worked fine. Check out Glaswerks and VVT amps that have the pot on the chassis front, which is ven more handy.

However, it took me a long time to get the pots adjusted/ finding the sweet spot. And once I found that sweet spot, I wished I had put TRIMMERS on the board, so I wouldnt be at risk touching thos knobs by accident and thereby loosing the sweet spot.

So in conslusion I personally cannot reccomend regular pots over trimpots.

it is kinda frustrating. i'm actually considering disconnecting the post OD tonestack all together and converting my PAB to the pickmaster cleanboost Mod just do i don't have to deal with it anymore. grrrrr

This company

http://mec-pickups.de/modules/products/product.php?katID=15049&cl=EN (http://mec-pickups.de/modules/products/product.php?katID=15049&cl=EN)

makes dual/triple/switch combination pots so theoretically you could moun the HRM on the fron fascia using the existing holes. Two downsides as I see it, they are expensive and you wouldn't be able to use chicken head knobs. I am undecided whether to do this for my next build or not. First off I need an excuse to get another amp!!

Halleluiah !

For me, the best Dumble tones are from NON HRM tweaked amps.
I was lucky to be around Robben’s and Larry’s sound checks and rehearsals in London trying their gear. Because I used to tweak friends amps, I had my nose inside of several two rocks, fuchs, bludos, D’ltes, skrydstrups, volt and ceriatones.
I repeat, personally for me the best tone is coming out of 80’s high plate ODS with Bluesmaster-ish preamp and slightly tweaked OD section.
Additional options are: regulated clean mega boost and super drive channel with additional relay and foot switch.
Also it would be fear to say that recently I tried Bludo Ojai and loved it. Great clean and OD but dreadful PAB though.

Cheers

 IMO you should wait. My amp took a few months to sound the right way. These amps take time to sound great and for you to get a feel of the way they respond.

Yes, second that!! Playing my HRM50 now for around 8 months - and NOW I'm getting to it!

The deal really is: PLAY IT as often as possible! In different locations, try different settings, different speakers, spend time with it. You might begin to think about the pickups your using. I put out the SD JeffBeck on the Brigde of my Esprit, cause its too "heavy" and "stuffed" for that amp in my ears.
I'm still in the learningcurve how to "play that thing". Played a Matchless DC-30 for almost 20 years in front of that and was used to: Plug in and play (loud) cause there are really not that much"options" on the Matchless as - take it or leave it.

But the HRM is totally different and - at least for me - it took a long time to understand, or better "feel" what and how to play with that amp. First noticed: The differences between guitars feel bigger, compared to the (still great responding) Matchless.
And this changes the way I pick (for example) which changes the overall sound.

What I did:
- changed the power tubes (but just because I broke one)
- checked 5 different speakers
- changed the V1 and V2 to lower gain, darker sounding Sovtek 12AX7WA (really old ones, that have been in an old Sovtek Mig30) and that put me in the "zone".
- did rehearsals in different rehearsal rooms
- changed the bridge PU on the guitar
- adjusted the HRM tone settings to have the lead sound with PAB engaged and that way the "normal" overdrive (no PAB) is now almost clean, what I like, cause adding the rc-booster to THAT, gives a really nice fat (L.Carlton-)tone with the neck PU on a ES335
- adding a ts-808 (with almost no gain) for nice more overdriven tones at PAB-off
- also the volume stettings are VERY important. I do use a c-lator with the tc2290 and it took my quite a while to understand what turning up the input dial on the c-later can do/not do for the sound.
- the deep switch actually has big effekt to the response of the amp (I think). Took me some weeks to "emotionaly feel" how it effekts the sound and therefore my playing ...
- the amp sounds pretty different "alone" as "with the band". When dialing into a good "bandsound" the same soundsetting played "at home" sounded not really well and vice versa. But it DOES sound much better WITH a band!

The point I wanted to make: This Amp is more a "musical instrument" like a guitar. And as we all know: Guitars are female. And females have "their days" and don't really understand the "technical approach" ... and also give "her" the TIME ;D ;D

I came very close to finding my lead tone then I changed the choke and OT to magnetic components, now I back to square one in tweaking the tonestack, but the clean channel is much richer now IMHO.

It's frustrating when you get a sound one day then the next day you turn the amp on and you think that lead channel sounds like crap again and yes I only use the lead with the PAB engaged.

Most of the time I just leave it alone because I am too lazy to pull the chassis out of the cabinet again and chase tone and end up using the HRM for cleans & Stray Cat for my lead sound.

Sometimes you can spend too much time tweaking and not enough playing.

I think the way to implement that idea on Nik's amps is to

1) Add HRM board to OTS.  From talking to him, the placement and screwholes are there, all you need is the board;

2) Remove pots on board and wire up to concentric pots on the front so you have T/M/B for both pre-V2 tone stack and post V2 tone stack, using concentric pots/knobs

3) Change the caps and slope values on the HRM TS board, thats presonal preference but I don't care for the values D used there

4) Have a push/pull to make the amp switchable from non-HRM (basically just bypass that tone stack) to HRM. 

Just my .02 here, but strom and bold are right I believe.
I find the HRM the most touch sensitive, in fact the most sensitive amp I've owned.
As marin pointed out in some of his vids, the OTS is what many folks are looking for:
great OD tone, OD and PAB on all the time.
The HRM was designed, from its inception, to be a more versatile amp.
It is not only for flat-out OD-it has many variations available, all the way from very clean,
to a little edge, to heavy sustain lead tones.
I finished my build mid-November 2010, and now, end of February 2011, I feel
it's getting well broken in, and I'm starting to understand how to control it-setting the
level controls, and how the tone circuits work.
I think it is a great amp- a great design, and Nik's take on it really works.
As you may read on TAG, "the non-HRM models are easier to play",
and that's from one of the Dumble gurus.
The effort you have to put in to control the HRMs is worth it though.
An incredible piece of equipment I think.