Ceriatone Forum

Hi! My OTS has been playing for a while and my G12-65 is factory broken in. I've been using a lot of settings and have found many good ones. One thing that sorta bothers me is stiffness with picking especially on clean.

Is this because im using JJ 6L6's?

Is this a symptom of high plate voltage? If so, can it be easily lowered then or something?

Does it take like 10 arena gigs for the rest of the components to break in?


Thanks guys! I thought this could spark some discussion to cure any stiff issues.
Nick

where do you have your presence set?

I like the prescence on 6-8  :)

well, the more presence you add, the stiffer the response can be as well.

Okay I now set it at around 5. I adjusted a couple of things (PI, checked dressing again) and I think the amp sounds noticeably better.

One thing my tech told me, the JJ 6L6's have fast attack or in other words stiff. What can you guys recommend to me that would make my amp more "touch responsive" as opposed to "stiff"?
Of course I like the sound very detailed and balanced as much as possible. I don't want excess mids but will make exceptions. I've been reading reviews on power tubes but in at the end of the day, I am more confused. Besides, you guys here know what tubes work for these amps. Thanks!

Try TAD Power Tubes.  Either variety sounds great.  The 6L6GC-STR are like the old RCA 6L6s and the 6L6WGC-STR are like GEs from the 50s and 60s.  Good stuff and affordable.

+1 on this. I switch to the TAD 6L6WGC-STR when i want a less stiffness than lower mids than the Tung Sols provide.

Thanks you guys.

I've been reading Steve and Erwin's Bluesmaster Clean Mod from way back. Basically they pointed out that the OTS have an "in your face" attack emphasis which I agree on 100%.

They also made it clear that the mod (to BM clean) made the clean more responsive with natural compression/ sustain etc. It sounds totally my thing.

Now Bluesmaster owners, are these things true then? Cause if it is, then I'm pulling the trigger for a future BM clean mod. I also like the clean to have less mids, more bass and chime. But I don't particularly like the blackface analogy with the BM. I'd like to think the BM sounds bigger and more like a deep sounding Two Rock. BM clean should be more than just Blackface clean. Is it? If so, I really think BM is really my cup of tea for real then.


>>> I've been thinking about the BM clean thing for a while too but am baffled with the thought of modifying the guts extensively as I realize this is not a simple swap-the board mod. Nik said I should make a list of parts needed for the mod. But frankly I don't have the ability to discern which components should be swapped out if I want the amp to have BM clean but stock OTS non hrm drive. (BTW I like my OTS drive just as it is, though it could still improve on some things like cleaner bass and more overtones/ feedback). And btw the JM mod which they say now is standard on the BM's is such a sweet bonus for me.

So any thoughs /help would be greatly appreciated.

Does anybody have a layout of a Bluesmaster Clean non HRM OTS?

Thanks a lot,
Nico

I see. Maybe get a 50w Bluesmaster then? To save like 8 lbs? Would that be worth it?



Me, my main issue really is the fast in-your-face attack that I can't seem to tune out on my OTS.
I totally get the OTS mids and the g12 65 sound. What I can't seem to live with is the stiff attack. I also set my PI to about 7 volt more on pin 1. My speaker is broken in. I've discovered all the interplay with the controls. I settled with some tubes I like (except JJ's on the power which were there from start). I am also able to turn it up to about 3-4 master vol. There's this nagging stiffness that get in the way of my playing.

Nico,

What you are asking is better put to the guys at the Amp Garage forum.  It seems to me that you are wanting BM cleans and classic Dumble OD.  There is an Dumble (I believe it's Larry Carlton's) that fits this bill.  It's called the Ripper.  You may want to check into that. 


Stephen

I too was experiencing some stiffness and traced it right back to the speaker, a EVM12L. I tried a few other speakers in there since with much better results, a Kendrick Brownframe and a Jensen C12K. I settled on the Kendrick but at $180 shipped it's pricey. And good luck finding a used one. The Jensen C12K's pop up used on ebay for much less, but even new they are almost half the Kendrick. Both speakers were more earthy, less sterile and less stiff than the EV. IMO, whatever speaker you choose - I would keep it between 65-100 watts max, that is unless you're gonna be playing with the volume on 7+ for long periods of time. Fwiw, the Jensen gave the best blackface cleans.

It's not a good idea to go to the amp garage as a Ceriatone owner asking questions about a Ceriatone D-clone, they'd prefer we do it here.  Enough folks over there are upset to where I'd recommend using the search function there first before asking questions, that's part of the rules anyway.  There's a sticky thread over there directed toward  Ceriatone SSS owners, for example.   And we do have a few of the more knowledgeable amp garage forum members here. 

Thanks for the help guys. I'm definitely getting ideas here and will update y'all for any luck getting rid of the fast attack feel.

Even with the changes I made to mine it doesn't have the sag of like a Fender amp. It's seems the only way I can totally get past it is to run an od pedal with a decent amount of gain on the clean channel. I just think the amp doesn't compress well at lower volumes, when you turn it up it's fine which is most important. I'm done comparing this amp to others, it's so unique you can't. I'm setteled in with mine and I like it. Don't judge this amp at bedroom/home levels. It's a loud 50 watts but you have to find the venue to crank it up or it falls short. But using a speaker/speakers you can push a little does help it.

HRK

I guess you could try disconnecting the NFB, don't know if this makes the OTS terribly unstable and oscillate or not.

I've always wanted to try this mod but I cant seem to get a clear description from anybody as to what it does exactly to the tone. When you say too fat is it like gainy, middy or just bigger sounding. I also wanna know how it reacts to preamp vol and master settings.

And btw, does this just invole clipping/ removing the orange drop along with the 2 resistoes it connects to?


@ HRK Yeah you def have a point. I don't have quite enough opportunity to play freely on real loud levels with this yet. But I can say that the stiffness doesn't completely go away with higher vol. Even at gigs I can't turn it up btw, its a very loud 50 watts indeed. Maybe much louder than my twin reverb before. Or any twin r's I've tried for that matter.

Anybody know much about Output Transformers? I have some impressions and assumptions on how ot's affect tone and respone in an amp based on thing I read and my little experience. Please correct me if im wrong;

1. More efficient OT's give great non flubby drive sound but makes the clean sound brittle or stiff because of fast attack

2. All upgrade OT's or the ones that are revered are supposedly more efficient

3. Upgrading to a *larger OT is different that upgrading to a mercury magnetics or such... If so, how?

3.5. Are Dumbles in general less snappy? Cause I think I really cannot get the chirp out of my strat. I used to play a thin sounding BJr but at least its snappy on sincle coils. Could it be my solo g12 65? My upgrade OT? Or do you disagree that D style amps aren't snappy? Sorry for some repeated questions from back in this thread.

AND
>>>>>>>

4. What is the 'effin difference with "punch" and "attack"? How do they relate to "compression" cause to me those are opposites and you know, some people and even musical instrument companies use the words punch and compression together to describe one product and it baffles me. Also with chirp and snap, could you have compression only or punch only. both? I would say if you have snap and chirp you have compression. When you have punch, ...no actually now I have no ide what punch is. Its veryy ambiguous and overused to my ear.

Try a 12AY7 in V3 (PI) position. I have an EH 12AY7 in my OTS 100. It makes the amp warmer and takes away some of the stiffness you speak of.
It`s a very cheap & easy mod and if you don`t like it, you could always place the 12AY7 into V2 for a smoother overdrive.
12AY7 is very compatible as a substitute to a 12AX7. It will produce less gain, but is warmer than 12AX7 tubes tend to be when pushed into high gain situations.