Ceriatone Forum

Ok using a Chandler Echo in the Fx loop, I'm getting a volume drop and the master volume is ineffective above 3.
IS it Klein/Dumblator time?

Nick

i was having the same problem running a bbe sonic maximizer through the FX loop

Was? did you cure it? I'm thinking of getting one of those myself.

Thanks

Hywel Harris

From all I've read, yes, it IS time for a D-lator/Klein.

seems allot of circuitry to get the fx loop working.  I was wondering if there was a quick hack.

OTS’s pre out is hooked on master volume pot which is 1 Meg.
So PRE OUT’s resistance is high. If your echo’s (any loop device) input resistance is lower than 1 meg you will have mismatch and obvious volume drop.
After 7, 8 on the master out resistance drops dramatically to 50 – 26 K and volume increases.
So if your device’s input can take high signal without overloading and it also has output regulator you’ll be OK.

Actually good and cheapest processor you can use in OTS’s loop is DIGITECH RP 100. With this you can compensate everything – volume, tone and also you can use noise gate which works just great. You don’t need a Kleinul/Dumbleator. ;D

i didnt fix the problem yet i just run it infront of the amp instead of the FX loop for now. the sonic maximizer sounds really good on the clean channel but it changes your OD alot, you would have to see if you like it yourself

Looks like i need a buffered  loop.
The chandler unit is a very good delay, comparable to an echoplex the delays are that smooth. The digitech units they are not up to the job for me.  The other things I need to run are a tremolo unit in the loop. The rest can go into the front end.
Thanks Nick

Other have reported here that the g-sharp works well in the loop without a Kleinulator. I hope thats true since I now have one on order, should be here this week sometime!. I was considering a BBE sonic maximiser but maybe not now, especially if its not so good on the OD channel and you can't footswitch it.

further investigation

It looks like my options are.

Build a tube *umblator

Buy a prebuilt one $$$$$

Niks Klein unit

Ironsounds loop.

any onions/experience  on the ironsound loop? or Klein vs a tube unit.
before I plop the money down for a Klein

Nick

I asked the same question on the amp garage site. Yoy might look there.

I have a Kleinulator. I just ordered the loose parts to stick them in a 19 inch rack. The stadard box is fairly big. If you use a rack anyway, it might be something to think about.

Please post some pics when you've done it, if I end up going for a K then it will have to go into a rack mount unit.

I am sorry to hear you are having that problem.
Sometimes I am really stumped by some of the experiences some of our fellow forum members have with their OTS. I have had mine for about 3 months. It has no mods (except the internal trimmer turned down to 9.5). It sounds great and really gets a wide variety of tones, including all the ones that people have downloaded for us. I am currently running the BBE 482i into a G Sharp in the effects loop (it doesn't work too good with the order reversed). With that set up, it is by far the best sounding amp I have ever heard and I have extensive experience with a wide variety of very good amps. I have not heard a  Two Rock CR Sig in person, but it is hard to imagine how it could sound any great degree better. The level control on the G Sharp acts like an attenuator. It  also acts as a boost and when it is at one or two o'clock the amp gets very loud. Very little tone is lost until it is turned down below a third. I have not used the amp with just the BBE so I don't know what it does by itself, but it should provide some boost on its own. I use good quality, short, TRS cables, but I don't think that would make a lot of difference in the volume. Based on my experience, there may be some other issue that is causing your signal loss. The only thing I don't like about my set-up is that I have to keep the effects turnd nearly all the way down to keep them form being over the top. However, they still sound very good and the net result is just a loss of useable range on those effects.

Good Luck with your tone quest!

It sounds like the g-sharp is compensating for the loss of volume inherent in the BBE (due to impedance mismatches).

Do you find any inconsistency with the master volume with this setup, others have noted its ineffective past a certain point?

Hi John, just wondering why you use TRS cables with the G-sharp.  Does that mean the G-sharp is a stereo unit?  If so, the OTS only sees one side of the signal or what?

Jim

TRS are commonly used in PA connections as mono with the two cores as the signal + and signal - with the sleeve being grounded and not used for any of the signal path unlike in a stereo connection where its a common signal -. Generally called balanced mono as opposed to an intrument cable which would be called an unbalanced mono.

Hywelg, thanks for the explanation.  Would the G-sharp still function with instrument cables into the OTS?

On a slightly different OTS loop topic, today I plugged a 15' patch cable into the loop and the amp became noticeably fuller, less attenuated and possibly even more "open".  Then I ran my RedPlate D'lator by itself into the loop and the OTS became even more alive.  This was especially noticeable on the lead tones.  (I'm really digging the OD tone with the PAB off) I'm starting to get a big grin on my face when I hear this OTS with the loop in use.

I'm becoming convinced that using a D'lator in the loop of any Dumble clone is an integral part of the experience and HAD's conception of how these amps must work.

Now I just want some sweeter more 3-Dish cleans and I'll be real happy.

Jim

I'd think so I haven't got my g-sharp yet to try it still waiting for the dealer to get the g-switch to go with it.


I wish I could get my hands on a few of these 'ators to try. Some have mentioned the K rolls off the highs somewhat, which I'm not keen to do, but I do know that the OTS doesn't sound as 'BIG' as a TR CRS (which has its 'ator built in apparently).

Basically, I use the TRS cables because I have had a need for them in other situations and they do a good job, but TRS is not necessary. My 2 foot TRS cables are good quality. I don't remember the brand. Good cables really do make a difference in sound quality. Even very expensive cables have different qualities. For, example my George L .155 cables pass a lot more high frequencies than my Planet Waves cables. THe G Sharp has mono jacks for right and left channels. This works fine if you are going into dedicated right and left inputs on a stereo amplifier. If you are going in to a single TRS input with a splitter it would be best to use all TRS cables. I have one of these splitters and it will not work with mono cables.

I haven't really found stereo effects to be of much use for live play and they are achieved pretty easily with any modern recording set-up.

I think you might have written that incorrectly! Surely its OTS Send -->BBE Input-->BBE Output-->G# Input--> G#Output-->OTS Return.

If its any other way I really don't understand how the FX loop works!!

You are correct. Send to BBE input, BBE output to G sharp input, GSharp to return is how it is connected. Thanks!