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Author Topic: FM50 vs OTS50 vs BM50  (Read 10823 times)
Tone Control
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« on: June 14, 2011, 07:00:00 AM »
I have a BM50 and an OTS50
I much prefer the BM50, since I can get some lovely ultra-cleans on it, and I prefer the OD, which I set up as a little grit added, with HRM tweaked to roll off treble

The OTS has a less crisp sound, that is useful sometimes, but I am thinking that the BM50 + good boutique OD pedals may cover enough ground to be able to sell it

My question is: is an FM50 different enough that it would be a useful purchase for me? I've seen one for sale from someone I know
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Dr Tone Control, Strats mostly, prefer saturated clean tones, a little OD sometimes
BM50, JTM45, 36w EF86, DZ30, Expression, + non-Ceriatones (Matchless, Victoria, Wienbrock)
Just started with pedals a little after a 10 year purist spell, but usually just delay
exocet
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2011, 07:34:34 AM »
You could mod your OTS 50 to an FM 50 very easily, there are only a few component tweaks.
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Tone Control
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2011, 07:41:29 AM »
Can you describe the difference in the sound?
thanks
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Dr Tone Control, Strats mostly, prefer saturated clean tones, a little OD sometimes
BM50, JTM45, 36w EF86, DZ30, Expression, + non-Ceriatones (Matchless, Victoria, Wienbrock)
Just started with pedals a little after a 10 year purist spell, but usually just delay
exocet
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2011, 10:42:52 AM »
I've not heard one but I'd guess that it has the potential to sound a lot brighter than the standard OTS especially when you wind up the presence control as the feedback loop here has a larger capacitor - allows more midrange / Highs to be impacted by use of presence. There has been a whole lot of speculation that the Robben Ford dumble upon which the FM amp has been based is practically unusable without the HF rolloff imparted by the dumblator and even the additional capacitance of cables linking FX send / return. My view is that whether the OTS or FM variant is for you depends upon the guitar(s) that you want to use it with. Personally my OTS is great with Telecasters and H/B equipped guitars but hopeless with Strats. The BM is better bet with Strat probably down to the tonestck which is closer to Blackface Fender. There again, so much of this is subjective. 
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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2011, 12:11:59 PM »
Quote from: exocet on June 14, 2011, 10:42:52 AM
I've not heard one but I'd guess that it has the potential to sound a lot brighter than the standard OTS especially when you wind up the presence control as the feedback loop here has a larger capacitor - allows more midrange / Highs to be impacted by use of presence. There has been a whole lot of speculation that the Robben Ford dumble upon which the FM amp has been based is practically unusable without the HF rolloff imparted by the dumblator and even the additional capacitance of cables linking FX send / return. My view is that whether the OTS or FM variant is for you depends upon the guitar(s) that you want to use it with. Personally my OTS is great with Telecasters and H/B equipped guitars but hopeless with Strats. The BM is better bet with Strat probably down to the tonestck which is closer to Blackface Fender. There again, so much of this is subjective. 

I have an amp setup like the FM - actual a 1:1 copy of the details on Robbens amp as posted on the ampgarage.com where NIK also gets his info.

The brightness in Robbens amp stem from using a 68p cap on the mastervolume. (the effect of the 2.2uf presence cap is minor IMO)
However, you have to regard the amp as part of a SYSTEM, which includes a Dumbleator and a 2290.

When you use a dumblelator (or C-lator) with the amp master volume at 11 o'clock (and use the Dumbleator as mastervolume), the 68p cap actually adds just a tiny bit of treble, just enough to compensate for the - high end loss from using cables to/from the dumblelator). I use two cables both at 180p-200p between the  amp and the dumbleator.

IF you use it without a Dumblelator - it very bright untill you put the master volume on 11-1 o'clock - which would be very loud.

I never use the amp without Dumblelator, so for me its just a great sound.

BTW I don't want to spend 1000-1500 Euro's on a 20 year old 2290 Delay unit, so instead I bought an Intellifex and a Suhr MinimixII in order to run the effect in parallel without losing quality. This is a cheap way to get a great sound for low money.





the I the amp is not that bright compared
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achim1
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« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2011, 06:56:11 PM »
Quote from: exocet on June 14, 2011, 07:34:34 AM
You could mod your OTS 50 to an FM 50 very easily, there are only a few component tweaks.
Can you explain which parts this are? For dummies? Thanx
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T Wilcox
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« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2011, 07:23:07 PM »
Well the best way to figure that out is to take both the layouts

http://www.ceriatone.com/images/layoutPic/OvertoneLayout/Overtone-Special-V2.jpg
and
http://www.ceriatone.com/images/layoutPic/OvertoneLayout/OTSFM50-ModernEagleMod.jpg

and compare.

Pretty much every cap on PS board ( board with the big electrolytic caps ) is changed as well as a couple resistors.
V2 caps different and about a dozen other little components throughout.
LNFB switch added etc. 3 way switch at bright sw change

Todd
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Tone Control
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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2011, 08:37:44 PM »
Quote from: exocet on June 14, 2011, 10:42:52 AM
I've not heard one but I'd guess that it has the potential to sound a lot brighter than the standard OTS especially when you wind up the presence control as the feedback loop here has a larger capacitor - allows more midrange / Highs to be impacted by use of presence. There has been a whole lot of speculation that the Robben Ford dumble upon which the FM amp has been based is practically unusable without the HF rolloff imparted by the dumblator and even the additional capacitance of cables linking FX send / return. My view is that whether the OTS or FM variant is for you depends upon the guitar(s) that you want to use it with. Personally my OTS is great with Telecasters and H/B equipped guitars but hopeless with Strats. The BM is better bet with Strat probably down to the tonestck which is closer to Blackface Fender. There again, so much of this is subjective. 

Yes, I found the OTS better with humbuckers, and the BM excellent with the strats
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Dr Tone Control, Strats mostly, prefer saturated clean tones, a little OD sometimes
BM50, JTM45, 36w EF86, DZ30, Expression, + non-Ceriatones (Matchless, Victoria, Wienbrock)
Just started with pedals a little after a 10 year purist spell, but usually just delay
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« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2011, 09:44:59 AM »
Last time I watched Robben he had no dumblelator nor 2290 in the loop... all I saw was a Boss RV type pedal in front of the amp with zen and wah.
I don't need to say that he sounded awesome... definitely not to bright.
...but one thing I remember as well, he pushes that 100W amp to the limit... very very loud and that definitely helps with his tone.
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T Wilcox
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« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2011, 01:22:08 PM »
Here are pics of RF's setup without D-lator from Mar2011

http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=3478.0

There is one unknown pedal on that board that could very well be a buffer, but I have also heard he doesnt use the OD on his amp anymore since HAD last modded it. He used the Zen many times that night. I was not quite close enough to see if he was using Dumble pedals OD or PAB.

Todd
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« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2011, 03:28:18 AM »
I'm thinking about finally getting an OTS 50 but am confused as to which one...   Huh? They all sound great to me.  I really like the sound of spm72's FM100 (YouTube clips) but I don't plan to get an FX loop buffer (at least not for now).  Is the FM really that much brighter to compensate for the C-Lator?  Thanks.
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T Wilcox
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« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2011, 08:08:02 PM »
Hard decisions on these amps since there are so many versions.
Although there probably is no bad decision, although I only have played the FM50 so far so cant really comment on the rest.
I do not think the FM is overly bright with or without C-lator but I do love my reverb and delay so effects buffer is a must for me!
You could also just run a crappy high pf cable through the effects loop to tame highs as well for meantime. Most everyone is using a effects buffer of some sort though whether its the C-D-K-lator or Ive even heard Digitech RP50 works, it also alows you to set MV high on amp and then use Buffer as MV which sounds better IMO.

Good luck on your decision

Todd
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Plexi bass 1986 ( build #6 )
Ceriatone Ultra Champ ( build #5 )
TW Express clone ( build #4 )
Ceriatone HRM MK2 ( build #3 )
Ceriatone 2550  ( Build #2 )
Ceriatone OTS FM50 Modern Eagle Mod (Build #1)
EBMM Steve Morse original
50th anniv American Strat
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