Ceriatone Forum

What cab and speakers will you (would you) run with your Overtone with?


I've ordered a 1x12 wide cabinet with a Celestion G12-65.



Marin

I've been searching hi and lo for a 65 to no avail.   I'm fairly happy with the Emi. RW&B but by all accounts the G12-65 is THE speaker for these amps.

I was thinking about something like this D'Lite here...
(http://www.brownnote.net/images/D_Lite_compact.jpg)

...small and handy... and if I want a bigger sound, I can always add another cab.

Didn't decide on a speaker yet but it seams like G12-65 is the one.

 ;)

Usually people go for the Celestion G12-65 heritage..  or the Electro Voice EVM12L.

I have a Mesa Boogie 1-12 Theile with a EVM 12L in it setting waiting. It isn't exactly the same width but I think it will do.

Of course it will.. actually lots of people prefer the EVM 12L on non-HRM "Dumbles".. and the G12-65 for HRM "Dumbles". The overtone is a non-HRM amp...

What does HRM stand for?

"Hot Rubber Monkey"....

from wikipedia: In some newer models (1990s to present), the overdrive stages are followed by a passive tonestack (treble , middle and bass), which is adjustable using trimmer potentiometers inside the amplifier. This is known as the "Hot Rubber Monkey" (HRM) modification (these amplifiers are voiced for the overdrive channel to be used with the preamplifier boost engaged). Most players use three tones: clean, clean with boost on, and overdrive with boost on.


Nik´s Dumble clone is based on a non-HRM 80´s circuit..

ok, here's my stupid question:
for the evm-12l, which is better for the overtone, 8 or 16 ohms. also I assume everyone means the classic 200 watt speaker, not the black label 300 watt?

My EVM 12 L is an 8 ohm 200 watt version.

Would a single G12-65 be OK or would it be best to go for 2 x G12-65.??

 

My Zen answer would be......yes! ;D

Seriously, try both if you can.  A 1x12 with the same width as the matching head can sound a little boxy.  In a wide body combo a single sounds great.  A 2x12 is more to carry but almost always sonicly better. 

Yeah I think so too!  2 x 12 it is then. 

Would they sound nice too with my Expression.  I have a DC30 which I used to play through a Blue and G12H30...lovely...

Sold it to generate cash for my overtone...

Is the consensus that Celestion G12-65 are the first choice.?  I notice they are 97db.  That may help quiet things down a tad.

That is the concensus with these amps but don't forget the Overtone has a lot of flexibility and can cover a lot ground tonewise with a bunch of different speakers.  The only speaker that I didn't really like was a V30 I tried for interest sake a while back.  But Greenbacks, Emi Wizard, RW&B, Tonespotter, and Sammi's all sound great.

I plan to have a cabinet custom built for me here in europe (a 2x12 with G12-65)

It's seems there are  15 or 8 ohms versions of this speaker right ?

What is the best fit for an overtone amp ?
what about speaker wiring (serial parallel) ?

I am using a Scumback M75-8HD LHDC_65 Watt with my Mesa 5:50 and I have a Eminence Red Fang 30 watt.
I also have a Celestion G12H-65 Heritage and a Altec Lansing 417-8C

I don't like either the Celestion or the Altec with my Mesa but they might be great with the Overtone.
How much difference is there with bigger size cabs, My are not big but they are wide open in back so I would think size not that important? Anyone got any expertise on that. I was thinking of putting together another cab that was bigger but I am not sure how much difference it would make.

After hearing scott lerner's latest clips, I bought a pair of celestion heritage 1265 speakers for my 212 cab. While they do sound great for robben ford tones, I found that they have very little high freq content. They tend to make your clean sound dead. THat's probably why they sound so smooth for overdrive tones. I went back to the emi rw&b speaker. It's not as smooth but it has a good, wide freq response and can get really "nasty" with a slightly overdriven sound in the clean channel with a strat/tele which the 1265 could *NOT* do.

Jack,

I agree that they can be too smooth. However, they do work well with the "bright" switch on the Overtone, which people tend not to use with normal speakers.

It brings back that single coils upper end.

Marin

Unfortunately, those speakers can't reproduce the high freq so no matter how much brightness the amp is putting out, they will never have the twangyness to get a really great clean tone. As I said, it's a compromise because they do sound great when heavily distorted. They are also about 1/2 the efficiency of the RW&B speakers. A good compromise might be a RW&B along with a 1265 but the 1265 woudl get buried in the mix.

Do you know which Celestion can compare to the RWB?

Unfortunately not but I believe the emi governer uses the same voice coil and magnet but with a british cone. I was thinking of trying one of those out.

I decided a while back to stick with the RWandB and tune both the Dlite and OT to that speaker.  Enough is enough...

Just a mini rant but........ Of course ScottL is a fabulous player but after a song or two of that "perpetual foreplay" jazzy OD stuff I need to hear a Major chord or two or I get the overpowering feeling for punching something...lol. ;D >:( ;D   

that was funny, ChrisL.....

Now....where are your clips and your review of the Overtone vs the D'Lite????

Umm...ya....clips...I'm right on it.   ;D ;)

Jack, this is the tone I mean't when using the bright switch. I still need to keep the treble at 2 for this tone. I am using a 1x12 G12-65 cab:

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=c5SbW-z47Wg

Can't get to youtube from work but I'll give it a listen tonight. Usually, when folks talk about bright with the Heritage G1265 speakers they're really talking about upper mids since the g1265 can't reproduce much high freq.

jzucker
I have a reissue 15 ohm celestion g12 65 I am going to sell unless it sounds good with the Overtone when I get it.
I have a question I am using a Lansing Altec 417 8c with a 5 watt amp octal amp made by Stephenson Amps and it sounds great, has anyone tried one of these. I got it on ebay awhile back and wasn't sure I was going to like it, but so far so good. I think I like it better than the Scumback I have.

And Marin, I am so glad I heard that clip. I love my strat and am not particularly enamored of humbuckers and I thought your tele sounded just fine, you were using single coils, I couldn't see all of the guitar.
Nice playing-look out Robben :)

Nice tone Marin ;)- in fact your Youtube clips made me pull the trigger recently and order the Overtone- hearing your latest clip has REALLY convinced me I did the right thing- that juicy neck pu tele tone is so cool- is that tele straight in to the OT with no effects/compression etc?  I'm now busy building a 1x12 G-65 cab with Vox cloth as we speak- five weeks to go & counting...   :P :P :P

marin,

Listened to the clip. It sounds good but a little fizzly. How are you recording it? Just for comparison, here's a clip of my ethos with a strat.

I will have to take this down tomorrow...

http://www.sheetsofsound.net/demos/ethos/ethos%20strat%20demo.mov

Cool playing Jack. Nice video too.

But I am sure which higher end tones are you  trying to get...?

Your tone is pretty smooth on this clips, almost "G12-65-ish". ;)


Mitch: I record with a SM57 into a Focusrite saffire. There is compression coming from the Mastering software in the final mix. I am also using a Boss DD-3 delay pedal which adds that backslap sizzle which I like. I think that the DD-3, by not being a true-bypass, adds some compression too.

However, the amp does have a lot of natural compression. For me the idea of these amps is to tune in to a semi-clean overdrive which compresses with harder attack. I think you can hear it when I pluck the strings harder.


Marin

I'll have some more ethos clips up in a few days recorded with the same setup but with the G1265 speakers. You'll hear that they don't have as much "Rip" to them.

Jack
Have you ever tried a Lansing Altec 417 8c. Also I have a g1265 I don't particularly take a shine to, question, what do you mean by rip

I have tried several Altecs...Not sure which models. They were all fantastic.

By the way, here's another clip of the RW&B speaker mic'd with an SM57 and driven by an ethos pedal. The RW&B just has a ripping high end that the 1265 is missing IMO.

http://www.sheetsofsound.net/demos/ethos/ethos%20semi%20clean.mp3

That was sweet and tasty.
Thx
B 8)

Thanks. I just don't hear the 1265 getting nasty like the RW&B can. It's too smooth. :)

The overdriven tones in the overtone seem a tiny bit harsh for my tastes...I'm playing through V30s...so, maybe the G12-65 would smooth it out perfectly...any thoughts on that?

I think ChrisL posted a while back that he had tried a bunch of speakers with the overtone and that V30s were the only ones he didn't like. V30s have that hump in the upper mids and I believe the overtone has strong mids -  perhaps this is what is causing the harshness you are having trouble dialling out?

ChrisL's post

Yes, V30's suck with this amp...IMHO :P.  I'm really warming up to the RWandB because I've found it works really well with my 18watters too.  The Tonespotter was quite nice as well.

V30s are a very harsh speaker unless heavily doped ala matchless. G1265 would smooth it out quite a bit. Emi RW&B would give you somewhat of a fender vibe combined with a celestion which is a good choice in a dumble type of amp. The 1265 will attenuate the highs a bit and depending on what type of tone you're looking for will sound much better than a V30.

By Rip I mean "tear it up" as in getting nasty/funky.

Well....we're an emi dealer....so maybe I'll order a couple of different speakers to try out...does anyone know which ones are closest to the G12-65?

supposedly the governer is the british version of the RW&B so I'd try that one but emi's site is very poor for choosing speakers IMO

Here's another RW&B clip done with an ethos and a kingsley amp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF-P__C3vww

Hi guys (and gals). I'm currently thinkning (dreaming) about ordering my own Overtone without a cab, and then building my own matching head and 1x12 or 2x12 speaker cabs from fancy woods. There seems to be a whole 'science' to speaker cab design if you read the custom builders' websites - detuned vs non-detuned etc etc ...

Does anyone know of any good tried and tested speaker cab designs available on the interweb?

Thanks, Dan

I ran the Overtone through the Jensen C12N of my Engl. Didn't sound bad at all! :)

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=KWgpA-4ndSU

Here's another example of an overtone-like tone through the RW&B speakers. Notice how the high end really spanks when you hit it with pick and fingers unlike the 1265 speakers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaHRJv5J9q8

Has anyone tried an Electo Voice EVM-12L with the Overtone?? ???

Yes, I have a EVM-12L in a combo amp with my Overtone.  This is my preferred speaker.  I've compared it with a Vintage 30, a Greenback, an Eminence Red Fang, and a Celestion G12 Classic Lead.  I did add my own version of a beam blocker in front of the EVM-12L.  You can hear it on my sound clip on the website if you wish.

Greg

Link.....?

I think Greg's clip on the Ceriatone soundclips page.

Yes, on the Ceriatone sound clips page.

The right speaker(s) for an amp is very important.  But it seems there is often not as much investment in the cabinet woods and how the cabinet is finished. 

I think there is somewhat of a parallel here between amps and guitars.  The strings and the pickups of a guitar are integral to the sound produced, but the wood and the finish on the wood can enhance or cancel certain tones or frequencies.  The character of the woods and how they are joined also contribute to the amount of sustain in a guitar. 

I think the same is true for amplifier cabinets.  The amp components and speaker are integral to the sound produced, but the wood and the finish or covering on the wood of the cabinet also play a significant role.  The speaker is mounted to wood that will add or subtract from the tones the amp and speaker are producing.

I strongly prefer a hardwood cabinet for several reasons:
1) the tone is much better in my opinion.  (This would not apply to a head cabinet of course).
2) I believe there is more natural sustain from this type of cabinet if the woods are joined correctly.
3) Hardwoods are much more beautiful than tolex.
4) Tolex and other coverings absorb tone and sustain.
5) Tolex is not very durable.  It tears easily if you bump your amp into something.  It can be repaired but often there is a blemish remaining.
6) Hardwood (like flooring) is very durable and doesn't dent easily.  It can easily be refinished or touched up if dented. 

What do you think about hardwood vs plywood and tolex?

Well I not sure but real wood can be problematic sometimes...

Wood has a certain resonance and that is not always a good thing.
It's safer to go with plywood.

Regarding the looks, what is wrong with this  ;)
(http://freeweb.siol.net/mcinku/images/guitars/BF_Champ.jpg)

That's a very nice looking cabinet.  Did you make it yourself?

(I tried to attach pictures of a couple cabs I built, but the files are too large.  I'll try to scale them down.)

Thanks...

...my friend is a carpenter and he was doing all the hard work, I was just fetching and holding things.

 ;D

I just had to drop a note after reading all the comments. Thank you marin and zucker for your great clips!
I just received my Overtone and thought I had the ultimate speaker for it - an Alnico Tone Tubby. It has been doing wonders with all my Fenders and Class A amps. When I paired it with the Overtone, it took me a few days to dial it in. The Fender-y mild breakup tones are great - very tweed somehow. But the OD isn't that good. Don't get me wrong, sounds really good, but not (IMHO) as good as some of the tone's in the clips. Ultimately, its kind of turning this wonderful versatile amp into a one trick pony.

As for a new speaker, my money went on the G12-65. Sounds exactly like what I'm looking for (thanks marin). And to me, yes the high highs are rolled off, but the clean tone still sounds stellar! This amps seems very bright to me. With the Tone tubby, I have the treble and presence on 3 and its still jangley and bright.

I looked at the eminence website, but they need a speaker "wizard" like the Celestion site. Too many choices. But to my ears, the Hot Texas sounded great -well rounded. I wonder how it would sound with this amp. If not for the G12-65, that would be my second choice. Thanks again everyone for the info.

How do you feel about the G12H30s?
im going to be using a 2x12 and i play single coil guitars if that helps