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Author Topic: Kleinulator mods = Dumblator??  (Read 14200 times)
bluesfendermanblues
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« on: August 27, 2009, 01:56:56 PM »
Dear all,

I'd like to hear your comments to the following mods done on Michael W. Kliens 'Kleinulator'.

- bridged/removed the 33k input 'grit resistor on FET1
- removed the input 220p cap on FET1

- bridged the 100k input 'grid' resistor on FET2 with a 1.1n cap. = D'lator HP freq (1446 HZ)
- Added the LNF circuit, (10M+220n+10M) on FET2
- Changed the 1M input-to-ground resistor, on FET2, from to 220K

Using the Kelin i series, with a couple of pedals - a T-REX 'roommate' and T-REX 'replica'. I sounds nice and compresses nicely - even with the pedals off.

Settings
- both bright-switches off
- 'Mix' at 5 o'clock
- 'Send' at 12 0'clock
- 'Return' at 12 o'clock

Pedals adjustet to unity gain.

Since, I don't have a dumblator, it would be interesting if someone with both the klein and a d'lator clone, tried the mods on their clone and reported back about how the sounds compare. Due to the compression added by the mods, I have a feeling that its pretty close.

Erwin_we, Steven_nl? others?
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Steven_nl
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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2009, 02:18:26 PM »
that means soldering. I can't do it.

I do agree with Erwin that the Klein seems a bit "stiffer" and less trasparant then his Dumbleator. An experiment would be fun

I don't have a Dumleator, but I'd be willing to visit Erwin ofcourse.

No idea how much work this is?
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 02:22:03 PM by Steven_nl » Logged
bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2009, 03:50:21 PM »
Quote from: Steven_nl on August 27, 2009, 02:18:26 PM
that means soldering. I can't do it.

I do agree with Erwin that the Klein seems a bit "stiffer" and less trasparant then his Dumbleator. An experiment would be fun

I don't have a Dumleator, but I'd be willing to visit Erwin ofcourse.

No idea how much work this is?

Takes 5-10 min. tops
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erwin_ve
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2009, 09:22:46 PM »
Count me in for the experiment...
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django8
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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2009, 10:38:54 PM »
Having just received my Kleinulator, I too would be interested in this comparison. Keep us posted!
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mcinku
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2009, 05:38:53 AM »
+1
 Wink
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Steven_nl
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« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2009, 08:10:44 PM »
I'm of on vacation friday (2 weeks). after that. If Erwin can do the soldeing. I can buy the parts.
Cheers
Steven
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fretnut
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« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2009, 02:45:41 PM »
Quote from: bluesfendermanblues on August 27, 2009, 01:56:56 PM
Dear all,

I'd like to hear your comments to the following mods done on Michael W. Kliens 'Kleinulator'.

- bridged/removed the 33k input 'grit resistor on FET1
- removed the input 220p cap on FET1

- bridged the 100k input 'grid' resistor on FET2 with a 1.1n cap. = D'lator HP freq (1446 HZ)
- Added the LNF circuit, (10M+220n+10M) on FET2
- Changed the 1M input-to-ground resistor, on FET2, from to 220K

Using the Kelin i series, with a couple of pedals - a T-REX 'roommate' and T-REX 'replica'. I sounds nice and compresses nicely - even with the pedals off.

Settings
- both bright-switches off
- 'Mix' at 5 o'clock
- 'Send' at 12 0'clock
- 'Return' at 12 o'clock

Pedals adjustet to unity gain.

Since, I don't have a dumblator, it would be interesting if someone with both the klein and a d'lator clone, tried the mods on their clone and reported back about how the sounds compare. Due to the compression added by the mods, I have a feeling that its pretty close.

Erwin_we, Steven_nl? others?

Hi bluesfendermanblues,

otherwise your mod appears very easy to experiment, but what is the "LNF circuit" like???

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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2009, 03:03:08 PM »
What do you mean?

What the LNF network sounds like? or what it consist of is?
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fretnut
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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2009, 08:47:30 AM »
Ouch,

what I mean is that when you build "LNF circuit on FET2", where and how these components (10M, 220n, 10M) are supposed to be 1) laid out 2) in relation to the FET2?

1) "phi" shape? T-shape? Something else?
2) On the grid side? Ground side? Ouput side?

I hope I'm not the only one who is wondering this... Embarrassed
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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2009, 08:56:02 AM »
Quote from: fretnut on December 08, 2009, 08:47:30 AM
where and how these components (10M, 220n, 10M) are supposed to be 1) laid out 2) in relation to the FET2?

Ok, got you

I have done it as per the attached schemo  Wink

* ulator_LNF.jpg (27.55 KB, 392x487 - viewed 1867 times.)
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fretnut
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« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2009, 12:40:35 PM »
Many thanks for the schematics bluesfendermanblues!

Looking back, it shoud have been perfectly clear -  LNF = Local Negative Feedback.

I'm planning to build a Kleinulator during the Christmas break (your mods included). All this trouble only because of Roland SDE-3000 rack delay  Huh?
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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2009, 01:09:36 PM »
Quote from: fretnut on December 08, 2009, 12:40:35 PM
Many thanks for the schematics bluesfendermanblues!
Looking back, it shoud have been perfectly clear -  LNF = Local Negative Feedback.
I'm planning to build a Kleinulator during the Christmas break (your mods included). All this trouble only because of Roland SDE-3000 rack delay  Huh?

Great, that you can use the mods - all l really did was to make to Klein-ulator more like the original dumblator only in FET version. I don't  know why Klein left out the LNF and the extra caps that the real one have, but I find the with the mods the sound compresses nicely like the real one.

Nice that you are loyal to your old SDE, why change if it sounds good. I recommend running the Klien in parallel mode as opposed to serial mode like the original dumblator, in order not to degrade your signal through the SDE3000's old converters. Use it 100% wet and in parallelmode
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« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2009, 01:39:49 PM »
To be honest, I've been using T.C. Nova Delay with my OTS for a long time, because it fits into the loop without any add-on boxes. The sound is OK, but it's  not very user friendly.

The SDE-3000 has a solid button for every function and despite it's age, it sounds terrific. Not to mention, it's also "period correct" with the early 80's -style OTS   Wink
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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2009, 03:15:58 PM »
Quote from: fretnut on December 08, 2009, 01:39:49 PM
To be honest, I've been using T.C. Nova Delay with my OTS for a long time, because it fits into the loop without any add-on boxes. The sound is OK, but it's  not very user friendly.

The SDE-3000 has a solid button for every function and despite it's age, it sounds terrific. Not to mention, it's also "period correct" with the early 80's -style OTS   Wink

I also have a Nova Delay, which I cant get to work in the OTS' loop without a kleinulator/Dumbleator. I sounds 'hollow' for lack of a better word direct in the loop. I have followed the input adjustment procedure as per the manual, but without much success.

However, with the Klein, it sounds nice an 2290'esh
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