Ceriatone Forum

I've seen a few lurking around forums and stuff. I want one thats pedal size and good quality. I understand that the C-Lator and Bludo are the ones to get, but to be honest, I havent got room for a rack-size unit and would like something in the $100-$150 range, pedal size. I seen a Carl Martin Paraloop that looks cool, same inputs and outputs etc as the Fuchs FX Looper, minus tube also Minus the $350 price. Does anyone know of any??

As far as I know the Paraloop or other parallel loop devices like the Lehle Parallel (unless it's a parallel FX Loop Buffer like the Fuchs) don't Buffer your FX Loop at all.

I think the only way in the price range 100-150$ is a kleinulator. Never heard of any other comparable unit in that price range.

Thanks for reply. I was hoping for more pedalboard friendly setup to be honest. How good is the Kleinulator? Is it on par with the C-Lator or the Fuchs Verbrator, which are both tube-driven. Is there much of a difference in tone? SERIOUSLY??

Hey Babybear2011

I didnt want to have an extra rack unit either so I did this with a pair of scissors and jigsaw.

The tube driven Buffered effects loop is the way to go IMO!

Todd

I did forget to mention the head cab is 2 rock style which may be a little taller than whatever cab you may have.

Saves me a lot of hassle though.

Todd

All I'm going to say should be taken in the light of the fact that I'm presently putting together a parts order to build a C/D-lator.

BUT.....the Kleinulator does do what it's suppose to do. And is a great improvement over nothing. I can't compare it to a C-lator, but I have it on good authority that the C-lator is the way to go.

Also, I don't know if having it on a pedalboard with long cable runs is a good idea. I sit it on top of the amp. Just something to consider.

Not really. ;)
There are other, better ways. But I won’t tell ya. Find it yourself.
 :P

OK, I'm sitting here trying to figure out what is the purpose of this post. Also how does it help the OP and his question.

What did I miss?

Are you referring to the Surh MiniMix combo deal?

I was thinking the same thing. Oy veh coulda been a lil less helpful  ??? the suhr mini mix and c-lator combo seems to work, also xotic makes a parallel/series buffer in a pedal format which could compliment the c-lator as well

I would like to try the Surh setup to see what that's about. But IMO with what I have experienced so far, the less in the loop the better. I should have said in the earlier post that between the two (Klein & C-lator) the C-lator is better.

I seem to recall a post about a modded digitech pedal? Was that the one you speak of Pickmaster?

When you say "Better" is this convenience, tone or both?

Todd

What did I miss?
[/quote]

Yes, I guess you did. Sometimes one can use a site search for older posts.
I’ve posted here several times about different loop devices which works better than Dlator-Bludolat-Cilat-Tonesuckulator. Some expensive, some cheap but very good and somehow almost everyone here still obsessed with average series loopolators.

Hey why search I've read and memorized every post on this Forum 8)
NOT :o

Thanks for being helpful though ;D

Todd

You mean that modified RP series digitech deal. No thanks. I'll stick with a tube buffer and my TC2290.

First of all I wasn't asking about buffered loops, so WTF are you talking about.

And I hate parallel loops. You know, some here might just have their own idea of what is best.

Well that’s the good one in every way: price, tone FXs in one small flour pedal.
Than Fuchs Tube Fx loop, Verbrator, Suhr mimi mix, Koch loop buffer and probably something else.
My advise for OP – buy Digitech RP100 on eBay (probably for $60), turn up master pot on 99 and tweak inner EQ for your pleasure, use low capacitance wires and have major joy.
My apologies to companies who are selling D-lators.

Oy, tiger, watch yourself   >:(

No, WTF are you talking about?  >:(

So, I totally took your post the wrong way? Correct?

And considering you don't know me and I like women, address me by my name please. ;)

I'll just say this, tone is very subjective. I like the way my c-lator makes my BM sounds, however I hate if as an FX loop as I don't like serial loops as the whole signal gets f/x'd, so I will be getting an add on parallel solution. Then again I also like the way my mega PAB sounds and I like to use the clean channel cranked for a nice chewy sound, so what I like may differ from someone else...

Just be careful thinking a parallel loop is the end all, be all. The trick to serial loops is having quality effects in them and as few as possible. The same is true for parallel too. I found phase cancellation issues a problem with parallel loops.

Hmm good point.

I think a big part of the "subjectiveness of tone" is us guitar players are just fickle about all of it.  ;) My Mesa Boogie had a parallel loop and it drove me nuts all the time and I was always saying "I'll never use another and I liked the old serial I had in other amps".  But, the truth of the matter it was possible to get it tweaked in with the different effects I was using at the time.

So, when it came to finding out what the Mr. D thought was the right solution, I thought it made a lot of sense to me. But who knows, I may change my mind down the road.

Most of all, I was just trying to reply to the OP's inquiry within the context he was asking. I really don't know what happened beyond that.

Perhaps the SSRI's ran out. ;)

To the OP, best solution is to get the C-lator and put it in the cab like a previous poster recommended.  The Klein does a good job but doesn't have the same volume potental, feel, or warmth of the C.  YMMV

If you have a very good sounding amp and you don't want to get the dlator shape or"suck"tone away you can mod the clator.
Remove the NFB from the Clator and decrease the grid stopper resistor.
Personally I don't like that but I can imagine there are lots of people who do.

Christ guys, calm down!! haha

The OTS I have isn't built in head format, it's in a 1x12 combo with a EVM12S. So the option of having a C-Lator built-in is neigh on impossible. I just want to use reverb or a delay with the amp, and for that option I need a D-Lator kind of thing.

I am considering the option of the Digitech RP100 though, if it does what it does! I'll have a buffer and effects to choose from. In my opinion, reverb is reverb. But my amp at the moment is far too dry and a little slapback or reverb will make the entire difference. At at $60 on ebay, I can't really go wrong!!

Does anyone object??

Considering all your needs/wants, and most of all price range, I would say go for it. It sounds like a reasonable solution.

But, sometime when you get a chance I would take the time to read up on what the C/D-lator design does besides buffer the loop signal. Things like changing the gain and drive stucture for the better. IMO

I agree. It defintely changed the drive and overall character of my BM for the better. It also allows me to run the masters higher so I can get off the bright caps and drive both the pre and power sections harder without having bleeding eardrums :)

I just got my Clator and I have to agree with all of you. That's the way to go. I'm using a Lexicon LXP-1 for reverb which already has an input and output gain level control. But with the Clator it is on another level. Plus, the Clator really changes your amps tone a little. Makes the whole amp sound smoother.

hi all ,i just picked up a carl martin octaswitch which has a buffer button on it ,if engaged will this apply the same ideas as a   c-lator ,in principal.or is it nothing of ther sort

 It is a much different Buffer circuit than that of a D-lator. Not only does the D-lator help with buffering the IN/Out of a line level rack effect or pedal, it helps smooth out the sound overdrive and adds a slight compression to the overall sound of the amp making it more 3D sounding and changing the responsiveness.


 BTw Ya'll it's only a hand full of parts to add an internal Dumbleator to a Ceriatone amp. The Ceriatone Power trafo is more than capable of running another 12ax7. All the Parts can be implemented point to point. A hole can be made for another 9 pin tube between the PI (V3) and the OD (V2) tube and The Send and Return Pot's can be either put on Trim Pots internally or you can get small Pot's to go above the Send and Return Jacks. Less than $40 in parts too and can easily be done by a local Tech in your area. I can almost guarantee that it will add value if the amp has to be sold.

All the info including layout's/schematic's to add an internal Tube buffered effects loop (AKA Dumbleator) can be found at the Amp Garage Forum. (NOT recommended for those who have no basic knowledge of tube amps/electronics)

In a broad sense it would be closer to a Kleinulator. Meaning, it's a solid state buffer as opposed to the C-lator, which is a tube based buffer. Without seeing the exact circuit it would be hard to say for sure, but I'm inclined to think it's a very simple buffer circuit and wouldn't be very comparable to the C-lator.

Oops, beat me to it, Greg.

You know, that's a good point about using the power supply of the Ceriatone to drive the D-lator.

What about something like this....
...just finished this one for a friend of mine.

It has a bypass switch and parallel/serial switch as well.
 ;)

That looks great. I'm in the middle of building mine. I'm using an enclosure that about 1/2 the size and it hasn't been easy fitting everything. I wish I could have gotten a toroidal xformer like the one you have. They're so much more appropriate for a project like this. Did you have yours made special or did you find a production model? I don't know why they're are not easier to source here in the US.

It was a custom order... if there would be a market for it, I could easily order more... but it is always a bit tricky to order these stuff in quantity isn't it.

Hammond and London Power have em in stock

What are you referring to?....Transformers?

I broke the Power On/Off switch last night on my C-Lator whilst taking taking the cover off the rack unit, the front cover slipped undoing the latches and it hit the switch.

So I went without it and whole night I kept on fiddling with my amp settings and hated the sound I was getting.

I don't think I could live with these amps without a C_Lator in the loop, very harsh sounding, to my ears anyway.

I also have a Kleinulator, I start taking that to gigs as a backup incase something similar happens again.

I don't doubt that's the way it works for you, but for anyone who might think that's true for everyone, and that it's a compulsory extra cost:
To me the BM50 sounds delightful without any buffer added. I prefer it over the Matchless and Victoria amps I 've tried. In fact, it's my favourite
Then again, I don't use it for heavy OD, which may be where the C-Lator adds its value

Yes, the transformers

I should of said "this amp" not "these amps", mine is a HRM not a BM
And from what I can gather from clips other people have posted, these 2 amps are different sounding.

The only other Ceriatone "D Clone" that I have heard in person is a OTS50 another guitarist in town owns and that sounds different again. He doesn't know if it is a S&M version or modded or not, he bought it off EBay.

I don't run a lot of gain at all, more of a boosted clean, but without the C-Lator it sounds raw and harsh in both channels, the C-Lator takes the edge of it.

For Higher Gain stuff I do another band I use the Stray Cat

I had a stock OTS50, which was less crisp than the BM50 on the clean, and more raw on the OD
Now when I want a less crisp tone, I engage a Klon(e) pedal, which just takes it to more like a "super" tone
Do you find the C-Lator much better than the K-Lator?
btw what speakers are you using? I found speaker choice critical with the BM (Celestion Gold perfect, EVM12 too harsh, most speakers too dull), and to a lesser extent with the OTS (EVM12 perfect, Celestion Gold not as good, some other work too)

btw I run the BM very clean: preamp vol on 2-3, master on 6-7

The C-lator or Dumbleator variant is far superior in terms of high fidelity than that of the K-lator. the K-lator does not have as much headroom. D-lators add more than just an interface to your effects, it's a tone shaping tool in itself. Increases overall sensitivity to pick attach, more compression, more balanced OD and clean tones, as well as an Overall Master Volume. I highly suggest one for any D-style voicing whether it be non-HRM, HRM, high plate, low plate, BM, HRM whatever... They're 100% necessary. 

I run WGS ET-65's (Celestion G12-65 Clones) in a 4x12 Cab or EVM12L Classic in a Theile Cab depending on the venue

I think speakers are important on the BM too. I was running weber 1265 alnicos (alnico version of the G12-65) until tonight. The alnico weber version of the speaker is not dark as others, more on the warm side, and nicely bright, but the low end response of the BM was a little much for them, at least to my ears. I could never really find a tone stack setting I was really happy with, that's part of the reason I bypassed the HRM tonestack. I even stopped using the c-lator for a bit out of frustration. Tonight I stuck my 20 year old eminence G1s in there, tuned the HRM and PI trimmer back to factory specs put the c-lator back on and wow! That's all I can say. I ran it without the c-lator as well to compare and even with the better matching speakers it just wasn't as good without it. Seems to make it smoother and more punchy at the same time, depending how you set it. The Webers are great speakers, just not a great match for the BM

 I think the C-Lator is the one to get!
Question to the pro's here (don't want to start a new thread): I've got an C-Lator here (was a kit). I'm using it with my OTS 50, an it sounds awesome! Really! But I have got  a bit more hum than I had with the Kleinulator. Does everyone know what this could be?

Thanks!

Try swapping the tube out. Mine had a bit of a hum too. Also, do you have the cab for your amp shielded?

I did have a hiss in mine when I first put it together and it turned ouut to be a bad solder joint