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| | |-+  Boxy PAB? Ineffective tone controls? I've found the design flaw!
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Author Topic: Boxy PAB? Ineffective tone controls? I've found the design flaw!  (Read 29744 times)
Pickmaster
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« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2012, 06:27:56 AM »

That sounds fantastic Doc. Are you using the cut control on the OD channel?

Hello Hywel,
Yes I do. 12 way rotary. It is on 200pf on this clip, plus V2s double 330pf.

By the way I have new invention 4x10 cab which eliminates the beam and same time spreads the sound on 180 degrees. Im trying to patent it or obtain some kind of copyright licence before it goes on production.
Cheers.
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hywelg
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« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2012, 10:31:43 AM »


By the way I have new invention 4x10 cab which eliminates the beam and same time spreads the sound on 180 degrees. Im trying to patent it or obtain some kind of copyright licence before it goes on production.

Best keep schtum then!!!
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achim1
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« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2012, 04:24:00 AM »

Hi everyone,

this thread took the words right out of my mouth, as a famous rockstar would sing...  Smiley
I'm not quite shure, which resistor is meant in this thread, is it the one I pointed with the red arrow? Thanks for helping!


* Bildschirmfoto 2012-12-13 um 23.18.39.png (542.3 KB, 830x761 - viewed 657 times.)
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mr fabulous
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« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2012, 04:30:49 AM »

yes thats the one

i have to say after a few gigs that the amp sounds much better with the resistor change to 180k

pedals  sound much better, reverb more lush in the loop
and the clean channel is bouncier *ie more scooped

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Bluestone
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« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2012, 07:10:56 PM »

A big thanks to bluesking and mr fabulous for the info and your input.
Very helpful indeed.. Cheers Guys.
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Bluestone
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« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2012, 05:36:44 PM »

Have you had time to experiment with a 200K mr fabulous....?
Please let us know if you do...!
The fine tuning aspect of this amp is becoming very interesting..! Cheers
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achim1
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« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2012, 07:07:18 AM »

Changed to 180K. Hmmm... sounds a bit thin to me. Tone controls (esp. the mids) are somewhat flat... Not quite shure if I like it. Playing some gigs with it, lets see...
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mr fabulous
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« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2012, 09:42:16 AM »

yes it can sound thin depending on your speakers.... my amp is set up with 2 x thiele boxes with ev12l.... bottom end is way huge....and punchy. like a quadbox with clarity. i have tried the amp with an open back cab and i agree it can sound thin.

this amp really needs a special cab with it, i also found the bottom end too loose and flabby in an open cab (rock mode), but now a totally different animal with the thiele cabs.

blueprints for ev thiele cabs can be found on the web and in my opinion are simply fantastic, they also work really well with my 69 fender dual showman
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mr fabulous
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« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2012, 09:47:28 AM »

Have you had time to experiment with a 200K mr fabulous....?
Please let us know if you do...!
The fine tuning aspect of this amp is becoming very interesting..! Cheers

no i havent, i dont want to take it too far as you also pay with extra insertion loss in the tone stack (ie more loss)

i may bring it up a tad, say to 170k...just to hear the difference. my simulations indicate approx 1db more scoop in the mids
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achim1
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« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2012, 02:06:00 PM »

yes it can sound thin depending on your speakers.... my amp is set up with 2 x thiele boxes with ev12l.... bottom end is way huge....and punchy. like a quadbox with clarity. i have tried the amp with an open back cab and i agree it can sound thin.

this amp really needs a special cab with it, i also found the bottom end too loose and flabby in an open cab (rock mode), but now a totally different animal with the thiele cabs.

blueprints for ev thiele cabs can be found on the web and in my opinion are simply fantastic, they also work really well with my 69 fender dual showman
Yeah I've tested it also with a thiele box, with evm 12l. Sounds thin anyway, with strat and Les Paul. Got also a 2x12 box with two evm 12l. Semi-open back. This babe was a bit bassy, lets see how it sounds with this one.
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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2012, 06:55:48 PM »

Changed to 180K. Hmmm... sounds a bit thin to me. Tone controls (esp. the mids) are somewhat flat... Not quite shure if I like it. Playing some gigs with it, lets see...

As i understand it, the higher the value if the slope resistor, the less responsive ceratin aspectsof  the tonestack will be, as a rule.
Typical slope-resistor values range from 33 kΩ to 100 kΩ. A larger value yields a sound with more of a midrange scoop (i.e., where treble and bass frequencies are louder than the mids). Smaller values accentuate midrange.

I consider the slope resistor to be like a voltage divider that splits up the signal into the treble and non-treble frequencies. By using a higher value resistor, less of the signal goes to the bass and mid caps so the overall sound is brighter and usually cleaner. With a lower value resistor the sound is thicker and heavier, with much more of the lower frequencies.  Of course the value of the coupling cap has an effect as well...
 


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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
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hywelg
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« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2012, 07:28:38 AM »

I have been thinking in recent weeks (after having tried a Redplate Astro Dust, a very impressive amp indeed) about how to implement switching of the slope resistor. In essence what you have to do is switch after the caps following the slope resistor, which led me to the conclusion that that was probably how Henry does it with the 6 position Blackface->Tweed rotary.

So does anyone know what the effect of having dual slope resistors would be? ie one for bass and one for mids. How to model this in terms of tonestack behaviour. Or would it just be a matter of trial an error.

I did find a 12 way rotary switch on Mouser which can be  ordered as a 12x1, 6x 2, 4x3 way etc. The only problem with trying to implement this is where to put all the components. The Redplate amps have a set of additional turrets in a cluster which I would assume would be for these connections.

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mr fabulous
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« Reply #42 on: December 24, 2012, 09:34:29 AM »

i guess i should qualify my results.... i almost exclusively use the amp in jazz mode. and with this slope resistor change i am extremely happy. and i still have plenty off bass and mids in my controls anf if i need more i use the mids boost switch)

i previously found the mid boost and rock mode way to much for my likings and so always used the amp in jazz. but after this mod..it seems to have tamed these setting to make them more useable and controllable

fab

ps, if there are and members here in melbourne australia, feel free to get in touch to come and try it out.
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achim1
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« Reply #43 on: December 25, 2012, 05:29:45 AM »

Well... changed back to 150K. Much better (for me!) now. Especially starts don't sound so thin. But I must honestly say, I don't use the jazz-mode.
BTW: HAPPY XMAS TO YOU ALL!!
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Thilo278
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« Reply #44 on: December 26, 2012, 03:28:13 PM »

So this could be the reason, why I like my amp now really much with the 68k slope. It's really full sounding.
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