Ceriatone Forum

I want to hear any reviews or opinions of it by those who have it.

I thought all the BMs made after early 2010 had it anyway????

I dont know. When I emailed nik recently telling him what I was after he suggested the BM with JM mod. I would assume he would just call it the BM if it already incorporated it...maybe not though.

Can someone explain what this mod is?  Either a description of what it does to the tone, a technical description or both?  ;D
Thanks
Sean

This was Nik's response from our email exchange, "As for the JM mod, it’s pretty subtle honestly. It’s done to make the amp slightly less bright on the clean channel, and reduce aggressive mids (in your face) as well.."

Are JM's Dumbles and Two Rocks Bluesmaster circuit too? Always thought they were not...

Nah, not all of John Mayer's Dumble's & TR's are not Bluesmaster's (he owns sooo many though it's hard to say.

 His Two Rock Sig is based around the Clean channel of the Custom Reverb Sig. The CRS is based upon the "Classic" style Dumble Clean Voicing with NON-HRm Overdrive.

 A Tone quest article a while back reviewed one of his 100w HRm Dumble Overdrive Special's with EL34's that was used extensively in 07' on Continum.
I attached it below.

He owns many other Dumble accessories and Amps too
1 Dumble Overdrive Preamp (early Prototype)
1 Dumbleator I
1 Dumbleator II
1 Overdrive Special 100w classic (silver chassis,Combo cab with Ev, David Lindly type amp)
1 Overdrive Special 50w non-HRm Skyliner
1 Dumble Modded Bandmaster (used currently to run his Leslie cabs)
1 Dumble Overdrive Reverb (Skyliner, SSS type Verb)
1 Dumble Steel String Singer (100w 4x6L6's, Filter Inductor Section,Silver chassis)

The 100w HRm EL34 ODS can be seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYMJ1Xtko_g

Here is a pic of his many Dumble's:

Dumble 100w NON-HRM Skyliner (Mid 80's, 2 piece chassis)
Dumble 100w HRM Skyliner (Late 80's)
Dumble 100w HRm Skyliner (Mid 90's Script Logo)

Hi,

It is not really BM mod. It is an ordinary OTS 100 with following mods (mods are in red-ish colour).
I modified about fifteen amps this way and it is closest to JM clean and drive tone.
You have to switch 3 way bright switch on 68pf !
Hope this helps.
But you need JM hands too ;D
Cheers

(http://www.drika.biz/jmots.jpg)

Thanks for the infos :)

Pickmaster are those mods you tried yourself to get close to JM Sound or are those mods which are in a Dumble of JM?

Unfortunately not in JM’s Dumble.
But we experimented a lot to get as close as possible with Ceriatone. Loads of younger players like his tone (not his really, it’s Hendrix and SRV if you ask me)  and they want their amps to be modified that way.

Looks interesting. What speaker do you recommend?

EVM-12L   !!!

Hm, but Mayer uses 2x G12-65, 2x Celestion Gold and 2x Celestion Century himself?
There's a G12-65Heritage in my 1x12" Combo right now. Maybe the EVM-12L would be a good match in a second 1x12" box :) Or a Celestion gold  ???
Or both in a 2x12"  ;D

I now have an EVM12L
I think that although the clean is amazing, it is a little too shrill for the BM50. The EVM12 is the best one for the OTS 50 I think
I prefer the Celestion Gold on the BM50
Personal taste of course!

I have an old 80s EV12L.

Have tried it a number of times in a ported cabinet...similar to pickmasters snakeskin ditto. However, I find it to be pretty useless for OD .....AT LOWER VOLUMES!  :-)
It better at gig volume.

I have tried a eminence kappa Pro in the cabinet and it has a better OD top end but its perhaps a little dark. The best speaker for The ported cabinet is IMO is a Fane 12L ...it has both great clean tone and great OD tones at ANY volume. And the Fane has a massive bottomend similar to a 4x12. Incredible IMHO.

Is the Fane having the same mounting dimensions as a regular 12"?

subscribed

Are there any sound samples??? I would love to hear one side by side to a reg ots!!! Also is it more two rock type tone? Cause I am very interested in getting this done to mine if it smooths some harness out of my ots.

Thanks

Sorry to revive that old thread. I'm still considering to let my OTS 50 getting modded.
It was built in march 2008, so should be like a S&M.
I really like that clean John Mayer/SRV sound, so I'm considering the mods posted in this thread. But since I don't have a recent OTS 50/100 but an early OTS without any mods I'm not sure whether I can use them or better stick with the mods posted by Pickmaster in the thread http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=740.0 (http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=740.0) which were done with an early OTS 50, too.

Maybe someone (best would be Ika himself I guess :) ) can chime in here?

Thanks!

No, you don’t need the complicated mods in my old thread you’ve just mentioned.
Better to perform mods mentioned in this thread or one I’ve published couple days ago here  http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=4753.msg22766#msg22766

They are almost similar mods and work great for all OTS non HRM amps.
My first amp was S&M 50 and it sounds nice after this mods.
Cheers

Thanks for the quick and helpful answer Ika! :)
So with the #102 FM-ME layout I just take the additional mods you marked? I don't have to change the amp for #102 specs I guess, right?
(Or I just stick with the mods in that thread here :-)  )

Do you think that 12-way rotary selector switch (instead of treble bleed) would be a good thing to add to this layout to improve the overdrive channel? It's not very useful with a strat right now for me..

Thanks!

Hi Thilo,

Treble bleed (usually 0.04uF cap and pot) unfortunately cuts not only high frequencies but also high mids as well.  12 way rotary with 100pf, 200pf,…..1200pf range SELECTS and cuts only highs and very little high mids on higher capacitance so your tone stays richer.

And Yes, stick with the changes here, just introduce 1K linear pot on the presence and if you gona use 12 way rotary, than V2 snubers must be both 330pf  than you will have wide range OD tone.
Be cool.

Okay to sum it up:
The important stuff is this:
•2- or 3-Way switch to select LNFB/switch it off.
•the rotary switch (including 68k slope resistor)
•1k Presence pot
•bright switch = 68pf
•V2's snubbers both 330pf
•Here's a little confusion: "0,01mf cap instead of 0,005 between two resistors before the X –terminal"
  do you really mean mf? or is it a typo and you mean 0,01uf?
(• removing the bass cap is not necessary, right? )

I hope I didn't forget something essential to get me more towards the JM clean sound and have a more useful drive sound? :)

Or are these other changes as important as the above mentioned? For example Ratio 200k L or those other value changes on the board where the confusing 0,01uf cap is?

Thanks Ika, you really help me with all those suggestions and tips! :)

I'm also a bit unsure what to do with my 2012 OTS 50.

I've removed the bass cap and the LNFB and its much closer to the JM tone.

Now I guess I should also just follow your new layout on the FM Modern Eagle layout on the TR vs. OTS thread right Dr. Ika? And disregard that JM mod layout for OTS 100 on the older thread?

Thanks!

Dr Ika knows his shizzy when it comes to modding these amps.
But...

If you really want that classic clean JM or SRV sound:

Stevie Ray Vaughn-SSS 150w 4 x6550 pwr section with Reverb and filter section,- The amp was said to be voiced like Jackson Browne's "White Glove" Dumbleland for Bass. SRV's SSS was essentially a bass amp voiced for guitar frequencies.

John Mayer- SSS 100w with 6L6's, all the features above, this amp is very special and sounds incredible with harmonics that just jump out. Two-Rock based their Sterling Signature on this amp and Henry Kaisers SSS's. This amp can be heard at countless recording and Youtube vids.

SRV used Browne's amp to record some of the tracks on Texas Flood. That being said, some of the best clean SRV sounds I have heard were from the el mocombo concert during Lenny, and that was just a good ol Blackface Twin. Freddie King got awesome clean and dirty sounds from twins and showmans. Good headroom helps alot and can make your clean tone loud and punchy. I played through a BF dual showman in my early 20's. Loved it, but the sweet spot was at such a high volume that no one else could be heard. The SSS that Nik builds, and the original types with the extra driver tube sound good at all volume levels, just as an FYI.

That said, my BM has some of the best clean tones I have ever heard, especially with the right speakers and tubes. It IS a different beast than the rest of the OTS line, and the OD is not OTS mid singing d-style OD, it is more raw and gritty and, well, bluesy with the HRM bypassed it is even more so, and it's just the way I like it :)

^
What he said! :chairdance:

Hi,
First of all, uf and mf both stand for microfarad  ;D. U is really Lathin.¨mu¨ - μ  . Peple just use uf instead of μf.
As l've mentioned both diagrams are almost similar.. I'm not with te computer at the moment and will clarify things soon..
Greg, l understand  you love your BM and it is a great amp but moded FM ME has similar or even biger cleans and great drive tone. Switching off the HRM block is a great idea but afterwards you have to tweak a drive  components

I'll be with you guys soon.
Cheers

Hey Doc,

I've been following many of your posts lately as it applies to some of my thoughts around my next ceriatone purchase.

A question, would you recommend an OTS FM over a regular OTS the amp for your mods?

I guess what I'm after is something with two rock cleans but has the ability to from dumble OD to something really thick and fat without the dumble sax like tone. Not sure if it's possible...

Looking to keep the current cab to switch both amps between which currently houses a EVM12L.

Gotta say, I'm digging the BM but find it sounds best with the gain dimed low which it is low gain with quite a bit of highs coming through, and that's with the HRM bypassed. After something thicker with more gain, but still smooth without too much fizz, which i think wouldmprobably mean more mids and less highs.

Would appreciate your thoughts!

OK, here we go again,
To Thilo – use 2 way small toggle switch to turn the LNFB on or off.
12 way rotary switch or 3 way toggle switch for V2,2 snubber, chose caps for your taste.
68 k slope resistor, minimum 1w. I use 2w.
Bright switch minimum 68pf or 3 way switch with 68 and 100pf. Or higher if you like more bright tone.
V2s snubbers 330pf and than you increase V2,2s with the rotary or 3 way toggle.
0,01 mf, uf, for a fatter drive tone. If somebody wants more fat increase it gradually to 0,02…0,05 mf but this can introduce flub.
After this cap use 100k resistor on X line for more open drive tone if you have 100k L RATIO pot. If you use 200k L or higher RATIO pot, than reduse 180k X line resistor to 33k or 10k. You will have higher OD volume and more open tone, no fizz.
Remove bass cap or put small toggle there.

To captanbackfire – use above mentioned mods if you have FM ME but as I’ve mentioned mods will perfectly work with all OTSs.

To StratUltra – I recommend an FM EM over a regular OTS because many useful mods are already there so less work for you for other mods.
With above mentioned mods you will have much better clean channel.
OD tone is easy to shape with FOUR components: OD trimmer, V2 snubbers and X – line capacitor / resisto combination.
First change X line resistor to lower value 100k, 50k, 33k,… than increase 0,005mf cap to 0,01 or bit higher value. Than adjust the OD trimmer for desired gain and than reduce drive highs with snubbers.

IMPOTRANT !!!   X line capacitor’s minimum voltage is 600v. I have 1000v ceramic caps.

That’s it, Hope it’s more clear now. Good luck guys and be careful with high voltages.

Thanks again Doc,

I was listening to your YouTube clips to get a feel of the tones of the modded OTS and gezzz some awesome tones and playing I might say! Typically like little wing.

With the mods offered, do you think it's nessacary I use a Clator? Seems the ME mods darkern the FM which is why the Clator is recommended with the FMs.

Thanks for listening and your kind words, much appreciated.
Put a three way switch on the master volume with an additional 33pf and 68pf caps. This will make an amp brighter if desired. No Dlator needed for that, but if you use effects than you need some kind of buffering device, it can be Dlator or any other.

Thanks Doc!

You've sold me on a FM ME with your mods!

I really can't thank you enough, Ika!

I will mod it together with a friend in about two weeks :-) Just ordered everything mentioned; including the other parts highlighted in that JM Mod. Seems they are not needed... But can't be to bad to change them, too, I guess :-)

My pleasure Thilo,
As I’ve mentioned experimenting is a great fun. When you guys finish FM mods, you can try couple of additional changes from JM thread if you wish.

Cheers

I'm also interested with the path you're taking Thilo. Please let us know how great your additional mods do. Thanks again sir Ika. I've done just two of the mods so far and the clean is vastly improved. This is the first time I jammed to a Jm tune and was able to sound better than him. Tonewise.

I pretty much couldn't complain about the tone anymore. If I was to improve something it would be the response. Now, I understand that my two strats here are unfortunately on the bad side of things as it pertains to playability and less significantly, tone. They play so so. If I can change something, I'd like more compression just like the effect of removing the LNFB. A little more of that effect would be appreciated. I hope some of you have suggestions? I've yet to try a naturally touch responsive guitar though. I'm currently unlucky with guitars.

Sure thing, I'll let you know :)

We did some of the mods now:
- LNFB 3-way switch
- 12- way rotary
- 68pF bright cap
- midboost cap changed
- 68k slope resistor

We left snubber caps, bass pot capacitor and everything else alone for now.
I like the results so far. No negative Feedback does a nice thing to the clean sound with a strat, though it's quite bassy now and less trebly. It's good that we made it switchable, because I like those glassy/trebly cleans sometimes :)

What exactly does removing the bass pot cap to the sound?

I first removed the negative feedback then tested my chassis so I know what it does. I then removed the bass cap and tested the chassis again. The change was very subtle. Maybe If I've done it before the LNFB then I must've noticed more increase in bass. But with what I did, there was just a slight increase in bass. I think you dont need to remove yours. But me, I liked both mods.

Thanks for the answer. Yes, I think I don't need it, too.My amp has enough bass already :-)

Okay, tested it and I still have NO idea what difference the slope did. The lifted NFB adds extremely much bass, cool for tele bridge PU, not so for neck PU. I prefer the 470pf setting. This is a good inbetween sound.

Which one of your settings / mod / stock config gave the most touch response? Or compression?

Thats interesing on the 470pf. What style do you predominantly play bro?

Whoops, just realised I answered in the wrong thread :) Well, you found it anyway...

Don't know exactly what you mean with what gave the most touch response or compression? The LNFB settings? Hard to tell... if I had to say something about that I would say without LNFB ist the most touch responsive. But that could just be imagination due to more bass, mids and little bit more volume?

I play the same style as you, I guess. Inspired by John Mayer, SRV, Robben Ford, etc. (Fingerpicking and bluesy stuff).

I have to add, that I didn't test the amp in band setting yet. But alone in my room with gig volume (Hell, that was loud!) I could imagine the bass player doesn't like all the bass the lifted LNFB gives :) The 470pF is a little bit milder, but still an improvement over the stock setting with a singlecoil guitar.

What's interesting is that the Jazz setting got useful for me the very first time with the lifted NFB ;D

Oh yea? Thats cool I also guessed we play the same style

Was your Jazz setting like mine? It only gets enough bass when you crank the bass knob?

I have used my amp in a rehearsal without the LNFB and the bass cap. In a place where volume is very restricted I might add. And I can tell my bass player likes my tone but he doesn't say it. I guess I know why... lol.

Anyway most of the bass and girth gets LOST with my loud drummer. So maybe there's not to much afterall. But then again, the drummer is oblivious of any volume restriction.

Yup, Jazz setting without cranked bass just sounded like... well, s***. Absolutely unusable. I still like the rock setting better, but now I see it usable.
To the bass: I tested it in a small room with cranked volume, so that could be the reason, why I'm hearing so much bass. Also the amp is standing right on the floor. But with 3 NFB settings, I guess I'll have the right thing for every situation :)

This make me think. How does John Mayer make his sound thick but doesn't clash with the bassist. THough sometimes his live sound is a bit muddy I admit.

Multiple Amp setup is my guess... Everytime I play through 2 or more amps at once at quite high volume it's a pretty thick sound. At rehearsal I always played through my OTS and an old Echolette Leslie; now a Fender Twin and the Leslie (don't have to carry the twin :) ). The sound is huge. Maybe the different frequencies compliment each other or something like that, I don't know.

Another thing: Ika suggested the 470pf setting for JM sound. And this setting is also pretty thick. Not as fat as with the missing NFB though.

Edit: Okay, I just noticed I didn't answer the question at all xD Okay, next try: Maybe it's just the style... If he'd just play powerchords with that thick sound it could be problematic? I also don't see the guitar as a part of the whole mix with the most older songs (WTLI), it's more above all other instruments like a lead singer. Hope you get what I'm meaning...

I saw Mark Knopfler live in 2010 and his sound was even huger. But again it was more like a lead singer and not a part of the background music. I think it also has alot to do with volume...

I think you're right. It hard to tell I'm clashing with the drummer based on just one session where volume is even restricted. Yes, to be able to compare with Mayer, you have to have the same role as him.

Yesterday I got to fire my ots way up in my friend's rooftop. I found where on the master it breaks up. On just about 3 the clean breaks already with my strat but its loud at that point. I didn't get to try to push the preamp volume to see if I could still get more clean power. Will it work that way anyway? I'm not sure if its my small 1x12 g12 65 though. But if that's power stage breakup, its muddy and quite undefined.

Yes I think you're right. Next time I have an opportunity I'll try and see the headroom of the input vol. In mid december I'm playing a big hall. I hope I can bring this and a 1x12. Basically it like carrying the rig into a mall.