Ceriatone Forum

Ceriatone => Overtone => Topic started by: bluesfendermanblues on December 23, 2010, 01:25:21 AM



Title: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: bluesfendermanblues on December 23, 2010, 01:25:21 AM
There seem to be some confusion regarding the Bluesmaster, people tend to believe that the PI (Phase inverter) and/or poweramp is the reason for ealy break up in Bluesmasters. It all comes down to excessive bass in the Bluesmaster preamp. Period :-) If you want a balanced tone from the Bluesmaster preamp, you have to keep the Bass (and mid) control really, really low.

If you are in doubt about this, make a search for a picture of Matt Schofield or Larry Carlton's Bludo BLUESMASTER settings, and you will see that both players have the tone control settings close to:

- treble at '5' (12 o'clock)
- mid at 3 (9 o'clock) and
- BASS at 2½ (8:30 o'clock).

You might argue that a stellar player like Scott Lerner, who use mostly Bluesmaster amps (Glaswerks and Bludo's) has his tone controls at noon?? Yes, but Scott Lerner almost always plays lead guitar on his clips - with OD and PAB on. AND Scott use MAGA BOOST, which in effect means that in his clips the tone controls are not active at all.

Hope this helps

PS: I have recently finished a Bluesmaster 100w with EL34s, and it took me a LOT of tweaking time to get the amp trimmers diales in. Compared to skyliner amps (I have 3 skyliner based amps) the Bluesmaster i should really be labelled; BASSMASTER :-)

PPS: @ 'Boldaslove', this is not relevant for you my man, since your preamp is a skyliner and NOT Bluesmaster)


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: sduck on December 23, 2010, 05:27:34 AM
I agree. I'm still getting to know my bluesmaster, but the settings that I seem to be gravitating towards are the same as yours. I even have the treble up at about 7, but that might be to compensate for my lousy speakers.


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: erwin_ve on December 23, 2010, 08:06:29 AM
Claus I'm happy for you finding your sound. I agree the on bass content of the Bluesmaster
One thing I disagree. The BM Phase Inverter has less headroom compared to the Standard Phase inverter.
You can calculate this; 9k(BM) vs. 25k(standard) cathode resistor for the PI.  9k has less headroom but also more harmonics due to valve characteristics(non-linear distortion).
Bass content can also be managed with the slope resistor; 47k is standard in a BM. But many, including me, go for a 68k or even a 100k slope resistor.



Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: mcinku on December 24, 2010, 09:42:15 AM
Yes, BM is a bass heavy amp and I also like to keep the bass pot very low... although I like to set my mid pot at around 5. I like a bit more body in my tone with my tele.
What I also notice is that when the amp gets played at band volumes the bass gets tighter... but when played at room volumes, the bass is just to strong.


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: sduck on December 24, 2010, 07:02:28 PM
I've noticed an odd thing along these lines. It's been noted many times that the deep switch on these amps are wired backwards - switch has to be down to engage the deep boost. So when I built mine, I took care to invert the wiring so the switch would work the "right" way.

What has confused me a bit is that at first, it seemed as if my deep boost was still backwards - apparently it works in conjunction with the bass knob. I've found that if the bass knob is above about 3 or 4, the deep boost when flipped up (on my amp) seems to cut the bass slightly, or have almost no effect. At the moment I have the bass knob on 2, and the deep switch works as expected.

I wonder if anyone else has noticed this? It's not a big deal for me - I don't really feel a need for a deep boost anyway, so have been leaving mine off most of the time anyway.


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: plasticvonaband on December 31, 2010, 10:11:46 PM
ironically i am listening to Larry Carlton and Lee Ritenour's joint album through my Bluesmaster at the moment (burning it in) adjusted the tone controls to those settings, and it sounded right somehow. there's alot to those specific tone settings, i think...


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: rane008 on January 27, 2011, 06:31:30 PM
Bringing this topic back to the top.

With my Les Paul, I can't run the Bass so low without the whole rig sounding too twangy and too trebly, even if I cut the treble and boost the mids (or vice versa).  I went back to Bass at 12 o'clock , mid at 1:30, and treble at 9:30.  Just works better for me, I suppose.  BTW, I'm running the 100w in full power mod with a Kleinulator. 


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: bluesfendermanblues on January 27, 2011, 11:16:52 PM
Hi rane,

I guess the difference stems from using EL34 versus 6L6. EL34 are generally much more bass intense in the lower frequencies. Hence, You got to keep the bass control lover with these power tubes.


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: sduck on January 28, 2011, 04:33:27 AM
I've got JJ 6L6's in my 50w bluesmaster. Still tons of bass.

I can't even conceive of using Rane's setting with a les paul - it would be pure mud with my amp. Rane - do you have any mods to your bluesmaster? Could you try it without the kleinulator and see if that make a difference? Or maybe you have really bright speakers? Edit: Oh, I see you have some EVM12's - they're fairly bright from what I've heard - maybe that's what makes it work for you.


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: mcinku on January 28, 2011, 07:12:49 AM
Just the other day I replaced 47k slope to 68K and 500K bass pot to 250K and it's a change for the better.


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: plasticvonaband on February 03, 2011, 12:51:26 AM
ok, so i have been learning alot about tube amps in the past few years, and i am pretty confident that i at least know enough to do a lil modding. i just want to make sure that i am looking at the correct resistor to swap out. is the resistor i have the arrow pointing to the correct one? Also, woukd this be the proper one to replace it? http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/IRC/RC55LF-D-7K68-B-B/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv9ULLAfKm5f5gs0ndWVy2j (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/IRC/RC55LF-D-7K68-B-B/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv9ULLAfKm5f5gs0ndWVy2j)


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: sduck on February 03, 2011, 05:01:50 AM
I'm not sure if that's the right one or not, but the mouser part isn't right - you'll want a 68k resistor, probably at 1% tolerance (although that probably doesn't matter much), and it looks like at least a 1 watt version. The exact brand and tolerance rating won't make much difference, as it's only a resistor, but you'll want the right watt rating so it doesn't burn up.


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: mcinku on February 03, 2011, 06:31:53 AM
Yes, that resistor needs to be replaced...
...I used regular CF (Carbon Film) 1W resistor... here in EU RN65D resistors are imposible to find and ordering one from US just don't make any sense.
I don't notice any significant lose in tone cause of that, so I would not worry about resistor type that much.


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: plasticvonaband on February 03, 2011, 11:56:56 AM
thanks guys!
@sduck, just noticed that i had the wrong resistance on there, just typed 68 into mouser, and, well you see the results.

I also noticed that the HRM non BM, MKII and the OTS series amps all have 150k slope resistors... hmm i see another possible 3 position toggle with the three values for versatility... what do ya'll think??


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: erwin_ve on February 03, 2011, 12:10:09 PM
thanks guys!
@sduck, just noticed that i had the wrong resistance on there, just typed 68 into mouser, and, well you see the results.

I also noticed that the HRM non BM, MKII and the OTS series amps all have 150k slope resistors... hmm i see another possible 3 position toggle with the three values for versatility... what do ya'll think??

The OTS series and HRM/MkII do have a different tonestack(skyliner). Off course you can try different slope resistors, but the higher you go with your slope resistor the less responsive your tonestack will be and maybe not so pleasant with a bluesmaster tonestack.
Anyway: try and see for yourself; it isn't hard to do and is always nice to see the outcome of the experiment.


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: plasticvonaband on February 03, 2011, 12:18:41 PM
Good point, erwin. i have a feeling it may get a little harsh if i go to high on the value.


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: rane008 on February 03, 2011, 05:11:45 PM
@ sduck, I don't find the EV's too bright.  In fact, I find them a very responsive and even speaker.  Now, other speakers may have a mid or low emphasis (the V30 comes to mind), but the EV's don't seem muddy or bright, just even.  

No mods to speak of, though, and I was running it with both the C and the K-lator and without either.


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: plasticvonaband on February 12, 2011, 11:06:24 PM
so, i have had my bluesmaster for a little over a month now and have about 40 hours on it, and yes i agree it is kind of a dark amp and a little raw and harsh compared to a standard OTS, at least on the OD side. This isn't a flaw, it's is just the way the amp is designed to sound. I think some of it, in my case is caused by my current tube compliment and speaker cab, so i am not passing judgement until my combo cab gets here and i get some better tubes. I am definitely going to do some tube swapping, swap out the 47k slope resistor and bass pot, add pickmaster's treble bleed mod on both the OD and clean channel, get a c-lator and gsharp for fun  :),  but i was wondering if any of my fellow bluesmaster owners have considered one of these:

http://www.analogman.com/beano.htm

from Mike's description:
"This is the Analog Man Beano Boost, a simple looking yet effective pedal.

This pedal is based on the 1960s British Dallas Rangemaster, which was needed at the time to give a treble boost to the dark British amps. This allowed them to get a sound more in tune with the time, as guitars were starting to become a loud, bold, lead instrument. This pedal is a type of BOOSTER, not really a distortion pedal nor a clean boost- it does modify your sound quite a bit. It excites certain frequencies and pushes your amp to allow it to create rich tube distortion. The pedal colors your tone, with a crunchy overdrive, boosting certain frequencies, and warming the tone with NOS germanium transistors. It does not have a lot of compression and sustain like most OD pedals, but a more raw, open sound.

This pedal has three tone settings from the tone switch- Center is a treble boost, the same as the original Dallas Rangemaster. UP is a fuller-frequency mid range boost (MID setting). Down is a LOW range, also quite a full frequency sound. Optionally we can install a push/pull switch (built into the volume knob) for 2 tone selections (treble and mids) but this option is not as good so we rarely build them.

The Beano Boost is spectacular into an amp that is already cranked up pretty well. It will also work well into a clean amp, but you probably need to turn the volume on the pedal up, to make the tone thicker by hitting the amp harder and making it work more.

At 9:00 the Beano Boost is unity gain and may not sound very special into a clean amp. At 12:00 it starts to boost the volume and get thicker. At 3:00 it should be waking your tubes up like a passing jet plane".

i'm thinking of using it's frequency boosting ability more than its "volume boosting" ability, to kind of brighten the ol bluesmaster up. what do y'all think?


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: boldaslove6789 on February 13, 2011, 01:04:26 AM
I've built and tweaked many,many rangemaster's. I have a pedal that's part of my line that is similar to the Beano boost buy more Mids oriented. The thing with rangmasters is they may add treble but in a very unusual way. I use a rangemaster on my pedal board only for that scooped Warren Haynes/Clapton Cream era type neck pup tone. Great pedal but not a problem solver for the Bluesmaster.

  Wait till your amp breaks in more. I waited a few months before I really got to know my amp and was really able to find my own voice.


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: plasticvonaband on February 13, 2011, 07:58:56 PM
Cool to hear from someone that has actually used one, Greg. Thanks for the advice!


Title: Re: Bluesmaster settings - keep the Bass control dialed in low
Post by: boldaslove6789 on February 13, 2011, 09:06:25 PM
BTW I recommend using a .022 input can instead of the stock .0047 (with a dpdt center OFF switch you can use the stock .0047, a 0.01, and a .022 )  that is the key to the Clapton Beano tone IMHO