Ceriatone Forum

I'm just wondering which speaker to use with the Ceriatone OTS. I'm looking for that "Santana" singing lead, not too bright... You guys know what I mean.

Do I want the OTS or the OTS S&M? What speakers in your opinion(s) would be best suited to this sound? Please don't tell me Vintage 30's!!! LOL....

I've just ordered my OTS, so I'd like to get a head start. I still haven't decided whether to order a Head or a Combo setup. Opinions?

thanks.....

Well......personally I'm loving the Eminence Wizard :)

G12-65

Or Eminence Red White and Blues.

Celestion G12-65

Celestion G12-65

EV-12L

Eminence Tonkerlite is the best there is

G12-65 and EV-12L are useless for most players!!
and are only popular because Larry Carlton use 12L and Robben Ford the G12-65 use these speakers.

Don't get fooled into copying the Pro's gear. They play at loud volumes, which most players won't be able to do. Therefore, focus your attention speakers suitable for low to medium playing. Hence, Eminence Tonkerlite.

It's rather bold to say that the most commonly used speakers (G12-65 and EV-12L) are useless.  I use the EV-12L at low, medium, and high levels and I'm pleased at all levels.  I did not base my decision on what notable players are using, but rather after comparing the EV-12L with 5 other speakers.  I don't have a comment about the Tonkerlite because I haven't heard it with my amp.

That is just not true.
I use mine at home all the time and my OTS G12-65 combo is the best home amp I ever had.

I have a 10'' Tonetubby Alnico it is the most defining speakers I have used.  I also have a Weber VST 10" which is a close 2nd.  I use both in the same speaker cab combo.  I think I'm the only guy on this site to use 10'' speakers

Nope, been using a 4x10, Jensen P10Rs since I got my OTS.

I also use 10" speakers, Weber C10Q  ;)

I second the motion regarding the Eminence Wizard. I originally was using a 2 x12 cab with a V30 and G12H30 which sounds very good. But I recently started using a 1 x 12 closed back cab with an Eminence Wizard to make it easier to set up in tight places. I really don't miss the 2 x12 at all. The Wizard is a very efficient (103 dB, loud) speaker with excellent response in all frequency ranges. When both cabs are combined, that OTS sounds soooo good.

For the tone you are looking for (Santana), I can safely recommend the G12-65. Check out my clips, they are all recorded at low volumes.

I have a 12" Eminence Cannabis Rex in my OTS 1x12 combo and it rocks!! I love the tone the speaker and amp have together

I also use a 4 by 10 cab with Jensen p10r's. Great blues and rock setup. ;D

Santana uses Altec 817 Alnico. I think the closest thing would be something from Weber. They don't sound like the 65watt celestion.

I have used all EVM12-L, G12-65 and Celestion Gold and the winner is ...The Celestion Gold

Better cleans, much better cleans, my Overton sounds like a BF Deluxe and when I engage the OD it sounds like santana

Just to add...The gold is so much warmer and creamier than my experience with the celestion blue.

Martin Lewis raves about the Golds with the Fuchs ODS.

My overtone is the most versatile amp I own as the cleans are truly BF fender only better.  Better than any of the cleans I have heard on youtube and these forums.

The OD is so silky smooth it made such an improvement over the G12-65 which I though was just OK

I will do some clips as I think people are missing out on the massive tonal improvement
 of this speaker with the Overtone.   

i love alnico speakers with my overtone im using a mix between a g12-65 and an alnico gold. very warm and smooth, i like to mix speakers so im using a 30 watt alnico that is brighter but still very smooth

I have just gotten my OTS, (regular version, Gabkits combo cabinet, playing a Strat) and have tried :

A Celestion C90 - sounded too middy with my Lone Star but surprisingly was not bad in the OTS,

A Weber Ceramic California - handled everthing but was a little sterile sounding

A Jensen C12K - I had high hopes for this but it ended up being too hot in the midrange

A JBL D120F - so far the best sounding speaker in that cab, but the highs are a bit piercing and the midrange is still not quite tamed

In general, I'm looking for a speaker that is scooped enough in the midrange to overcome the midrange spike I'm either getting from the cab or the amp. I would like to be able to use the "deep" (mid-boost) switch because some of the body I get from using it sounds really good, but so far it's been unuseable with the Strat, a little too woofy.

I have looked at several response curves and noticed that the Jensen P12N has a pronounced notch in the midrange of its response curve. Before I drop $200 on yet another speaker, has anyone tried one of these out with their OTS?

At the risk of sounding like a broken record..... Eminence Wizard, about $76.00 at ZZOUNDS
I have been alternating between a 2 x12 with V30 & G12H30 and a closed back cube with the Wizard  I play these side by side all the time. I recently picked up Nik's 2550 clone and run it with the OTS. I really like the Wizard best with either amp. The Wizard is actually louder than the 2 x 12! I have (2) G12-65s and I cannot  figure out the attraction to those speakers.
Although different speakers sound better than other with different amps I have not heard a Jensen Speaker that wowed me. I have Bassman with weber blues and it sounds great, the OTS does not sound as good through that cab. I have Kendrick blackframes in my vintage SR which are supposed to be best emulation of the old Jensens. Again I prefer the Wizard to those speakers with the OTS.

Not exactly the info you wanted,  but if you can, check out the Wizard.

Re: Marinblues:

Seeing as how you have quite a lot of clips up on YouTube, and the tone is most excellent, I believe you may have a handle on it. Of course, the other players have their points of view (and hearing) which makes it a very personal thing.

I have a 2x12 Cabinet with a Greenback and a GT-65 in it. This will probably be a good starting point I believe. Of course, my amp is still 3-5 weeks out according to Nik (a couple of days ago). This has been the longest 3½ weeks of my life so far!

Thanks for the input.

I too have had this problem with the  Strat. I don't think a speaker is going to fix it. But! there is hope....Check hywelg's post in the Greg Hilden wannabe thread. He explains how Matt Schofield sets up his two rock. I tried this and I was very pleased with the resulting tone and it seemed to remedy the "woofy" problem with the strat.

Thanks JohnE;
I'm seriously considering an Eminence Wizard, by the way. I emailed Nik and he suggested changing the cap on the mid-boost (aka "deep" on the stock OTS) from 330 pF to 270 pF to make it a little less predominant in the mid range, to boost it, but not as much so to speak. I will definitely check the Matt Schofield settings as well. Thank you for your help.

Pine

I also use a 4x10 cabinet with Celestion G10's and love the tone at any volume. I have a 2x12 with a Vintage 30 and G12H30 but seem to keep going back to the 10's. The low end seems to tighten up a bit to my ears with the 10's. Either way...you cant go wrong with an OTS. 

Just for the hell of it, while waiting for some Eminence speakers to try, I put a Weber Ceramic Blue Dog I had sitting around in the 112 combo cabinet I'm using with the OTS. To my surprise, it sounded great in there. Can get very nice Knoplfer-esque sounds in the clean channel, and you can nail the classic British OD tone (think the opening chords of "You Really Got Me" by the Kinks). I'm not what I'd call a rocker, more into blues and jazz blues, so I might not keep that speaker in there permanently, but I thought that I'd report my findings to add to the general knowledge pool.

Those Weber Blue Dogs are great speakers.They work well in my Weber 5F6A kit amp.

Celestion G12-65, I have two vintage ones in a semi open backed solid pine 2x12 and the tone is unreal, Robben Ford/Carlton tone no kidding.

Before that I had Weber Silver Bells, but the difference after changing to the G12-65's was astounding. They really take this amp from nice tube tone to undeniable 'D*mble" territory.

Nice to know, I have  a 1x12 with a Ceramic Blue Dog in it, might have to plug the Overtone in and give it a whirl  ;D

Recently got a g12-65 and tried it out, maybe because it isn't broken in,  it sounded muffled. I cycled through all the speakers I mentioned before in the same 1X12 cabinet, and ended up coming back to the Weber Blue Dog

I have had the same experience with my G12-65s and they are very much broken in. It is very noticeable when you A/B them in real time with other speakers.  Judging from many posts in this forum, that "muffled" tone sounds very good to a lot of people using the G12-65 with OTS.

The Weber Blue Dog is a great speaker. I have 10s in Bassman Clone. My amp tech does work for Emerald City Guitars in Seattle, WA and we have had the opportunity to A/B my 5F6A kit amp with three vintage '59 Bassman amps. My clone sounds remarkably better than those amps. I have to attribute this to those speakers. The Weber kit that I purchased had the cheapest, crappiest, components. I have had to replace switches, jacks, various resistors and capacitors and the power transformer, but that amp has always sounded great, due to those Weber Blues.

Yeah, I like more definition I guess. I wonder if the Ford tone is going through 12-65 and then being massaged by a battery of effects and aural exciters and such.

There are more players that like the g12-65, me included :-X.
If your OTS is on the darkside a g12-65 might be a wrong speaker.

I recently broke down and purchased a reissue G12-65 just to find out what the hype is about. I have tried my OTS with Celestion V30's, Hellatone V30's, G12H, G12M, G10 and an EV12L and am completely convinced that there is good reason for that hype. My OTS came alive for some reason. The single notes were round, fat and smooth and the rhythm sound was thick and meaty. The amplifier simply came to life. Its hard to explain. Many have tried especially on this forum and its a thing you have to hear and more importantly, feel for your self. The way the amp reacts with that speaker is absolutely beautiful. Taste is a personal thing I know and I have not heard this amp with every speaker out there but for me, this is it. Besides, if the tone gets any better than this, my head may explode!

Hey, we obviously don’t want your head to explode, but you have to try FANE AXA12 ALNICO. ;D

:D :D :D That was funny..... ;D

I just loaded a 2X12 cab with one Eminence Texas Heat and one Eminence Man-O-War. What a great combination. The cab did have Celestion 70/80s in it. The 70/80 speakers are just plain and lifeless. The Eminence pair have a tight, punchy bottom end with great mids and just enough highs to be clear but not tiring to the ears. Really makes my HRM shine!

Live, its just the 2290 delay unit.

Studio, off course, they use all the effects needed to make the best of the recorded sound, in order to sell more records.  :)

However, RF's tone has evolved over the years. IMO his latest record 'Truth' is indead a very true tone, that sounds like natural tube tones and not very massaged......From what I have read he use the 12-65, but has experimented with eminence speakers lately, replacing one of the speakers in his 12-65configured, 2x12 cab with a red chassis emi. I believe he has tried a RWB or ToneTonker.

I've owned my OTS for a few months now using it at many concerts and festivals. It (for me) is the perfect amp. The distortion is more smooth and less harsh, but it is not for playing heavy metal. You'd need a distortion pedal.

It's got great blues distortion, classic rock and rock sounds. With the OD Trim Pot mod, you have 3 levels of OD to play with, and it's got cahones and tone. Being able to bypass the amplifier's tone stack with a footswitch is a great touch for soloing also.

The tone controls aren't as "responsive" as some would like, but with the addition of the 3 toggle "tone" switches and a presence control, it's not really needed. I set it and forget it. You can also do internal mods to it yourself (via this forum) to shape the tone more to your liking.

The best mod I did was moving the OD Trim Pot to the back panel for "on the fly" adjustments. I also replaced the filter caps to 200mfd and added a fan on the inside of the cabinet to help cool it. Mine doesn't get that hot unless it's in the sun, and it has been a couple of times, and still performed solidly.

I purchased and have been using the Kleinulator and it's a must for this amp (or for only $120) or perfect for any amp that does not have an active effects loop. It allows me to use my wah, reverb, delay and chorus.

On some settings it's a little noisy, but what real tube amp isn't? It's still sounds every bit as good as a M******** or a T** R***, etc.,  for under half the cost. I have to admit the tone of the OTS is a little different, and owning two of them (an OTS 1x12 50w Combo and a OTS S&M 50w amp head only), they each sound a little different. But it is fat, sweet, full, rich... use whatever superlative you want.

This amp sustains (with the right guitar/pickups) forever. I use Rio Grande Texas BBQ's in a PRS Santana III and a Gibson Les Paul  Double Cutaway and I also have an Ibanez Semi-Hollow Body (with Santana III pups). They all three sustain / feedback excellently.

I use Eminence Patriot "Cannabis Rex" 12", 50w speakers in both my 1x12 cabinet and the 1x12 Combo amp. This is a great complement for the OTS. Smooth, silky highs. Very tight lows and pronounced mids (but smooth). Also it's a loud combination. Playing many large outdoor events, I've never played with the amp over 2½, and that was LOUD (soundmen get pissed at about 1½), and this is using only 1x12. Using 2x12's is really LOUD! It's not just the volume, it's the fat tone that cuts through the mix.

My bandmates make fun of me at practice because I "only" use a Mesa Boogie Lonestar Special, 1x12, 30w for rehearsals (until I bought the OTS, it was my main amp). The Lonestar is one good sounding amp, but there is a world of difference in tone, the clarity and the pure "balls" in the OTS's sound and the Lonestar just can't even touch.

You also can bias the tubes very easily if you have a Digital VOM. It takes a minute or so to do.

Also it has an impedance selector switch (4 / 8 /16 ohms) on the back and though I experimented a little with impedance mis-matching, I really couldn't hear an improvment over the 50w amp being ran through a 50w speaker.

The only thing it doesn't have is reverb built in, but I'm not complaining, it's just a fact. I use a DigiTech Hardwire RV-7 Reverb which I prefer over most reverb tanks anyway.

Cost was not an issue as the OTS S&M was $2000 less that the other amps that I thought were in the same "class". Very clean P to P wiring, good packing job when shipped. No instruction manual included, but there is this forum and the diagrams that are available from Ceriatone. If you found this amp, you don't need instructions because you've probably been playing awhile and know you want a "better" tone. You found it!

It's built heavy duty, though the amp head cabinet is actually too lightweight for the amp. I bought a heavy duty real leather handle for my cab head. The head is very solid, probably 38 pounds or so (in a light cabinet).

I'm still experimenting with different 6L6's and 5881's as the output tubes. So far I like Groove Tube 12AX7s as the preamps and the stock JJ 6L6s and Tung Sol 6L6s. I use the Tung Sol 6L6s and just carry the stock JJs with me just in case. I've not had any problems (except an initial JJ 6L6 was bad when I received the OTS S&M, but Nik sent me a new pair with all the associated resistors, caps, etc.). No problems since. Just rockin'!!!

I played many festivals/concerts this summer, all of them having used the OTS S&M head and a 1x12 cabinet. We had a large gig in Chicago on Aug. 14 at the Woodstock tribute festival and they provided the backline, so I didn't take my amp head (MISTAKE). They had a huge backline selectionn of amps. 3 Mesa Boogies, Fenders, Vox AC30 and Marshalls. NOTHING came close to the tone I'm now used to, and I was jonesing for it that night.

I got home the next afternoon and immediately went online to Ebay and purchased an ATA approved road case for it! It cost $155 or so, but is a great heavy duty case and it will protect my head since I WILL be taking it to all gigs in the future.

So overall I give the OTS S&M and the OTS a 9 out of 10, and I've owned practically every amp imaginable at one time or another (except a Dumble). The knocks are the OD Trim Pot you have to modify yourself (this feature should be a part of the stock build) and the lack of an active effects loop.

Tone: 10
Features: 8
Volume: 10
Versatility: 9
Reliability: 9 (so far all is good but can't give it a 10 there, yet...)
Price: 10

That is a nice review... and I agree with it 100%

 ;)

Deafcat, I like what you said about the Celestions being lifeless. To me they sound like playing through cardboard... Totally lifeless, muffled and tinny. But a majority of players use them, so it must be our ears eh?  8)

If you're really going for tone, and not just loud, distorted sound, I also believe that The Eminence Patriot Series offers some great alternatives.

I also tried a Tone Tubby (don't understand the fascination with them?), and Scumback (an excellent speaker, but very heavy/expensive), JBL, and Celestions (3 different types). I went through a total of 7 different speaker combinations before I decided on the Cannabis Rex. The first night I used one, it was love at first sound. Mine aren't even broken in yet and they sound great.

I actually had a Texas Heat originally but it was just too damn loud! You get into some of these festivals/casino circuits and you have to control your volume and still get the tone/sustain/feedback you need. The "Rex" is a perfect fix for that.

Plus the hemp cone in the "Rex" is a nice touch on the high end. Makes it fatter and less tinny. You can get all the bite you want, but with Celestions it was all bite all the time, even with the highs rolled back all the way.

Another bonus? The Cannabis Rex is inexpensive ($89 including shipping is what I paid on eBay) and very light.

I too, didnt like celestions, i have some custom alnico speakers in a 2x12 thanks to ted weber and it sounds perfect, i think everyone needs to trey alnicos before anything else

I’m sorry but this is wrong statement.
Some celestions are not good enough for OTS but nothing compares to Blue, Gold (12” and 10”) and Century range. G12-65s need about 24 hours brake in period and after that they sound great. It’s also depends on the cabinet you use, 1x12, 2x12, open or closed back front ported and so on. To test the speaker it should be in the cab, on your face level or in the sound proof room closely miced up and auditioned from the good PA (best test).
I’ve tried almost any existing Celestion, Jensen and Eminence speakers (it is my job! We build cabinets) side by side in similar cabs with a,b,c,d switch box and best speakers FOR OTS!!!!!  Are:

1.   Fane AXA12 alnico
2.   Electro Voice
3.   Jensen Jet Tornado
4.   Celestion Gold
5.   Tone tubby
6.   Celestion Century
7.   Celestion century vintage
8.   Celestion G12-65
9.   Eminence Wizard
10.   Emi cannabis Rex

Best wishes

Thats an interesting list Doc and I was wondering if you've had chance to try the new Tayden speakers , especially the alnico's. I have an EVM-12L curently paired with an Eminence Tonespotter in an open backed 2x12 and a G12-65 in my DC-30 combo. I need to spend some time moving speakers around as I have an Eminence Texas Heat spare, but I think this isn't the speaker to pair up with the EV, I need an alnico I think, probably will be a Gold.

good idea but i'd go with weber to save some cash

just my 2 cents

No Hywel I never tried Tyden. What is it?

Alnico would be perfect combination with EV in 2x12 cabinet!
Just make sure that sensitivity is similar 100db. Probably Fane AXA12 would be perfect because it has milder highs and sensitivity is 101db. Also coats less then gold.

http://www.audioloudspeakers.co.uk/tayden_guitar.shtml (http://www.audioloudspeakers.co.uk/tayden_guitar.shtml)

Seem to be as expensive as Blues and golds from what I've seen, just wondered if they are any good.

Will look out for a Fane.

Does anyone have experience pairing the Gold with any other speakers in the Celestion range with an ODS-type amp?

I have decided on a Gold for half of a 212 and am not sure what to put in the other side. I'm aiming for tonal flexibility; smooth lead tones, crisp sparkly cleans, Keef style crunch etc.. Sadly my location precludes any brands besides Celestion and Jensen.

Any thoughts? (Sorry to hijack, still in the theme of the thread I hope.)

C~

Probably Vintage 30, G12-65 or best of all another Gold. ;D

I use a 1-10/1-12 slant-front cab I built myself. Both speakers are non-alnico Tone Tubbys.

I have two 1x12" cabs, one loaded with G12-65 and one with Gold. The combination of both sounds fantastic but Gold tends to overpower the G12-65. But if I disconnect G12-65 cab something is missing, so it just has to be there.
Celestion Gold is an amazing speaker, expensive as hell but worth the extra cash.
 ;)

Is the Gold happy to receive the full 100w? I've never been clear whether speaker ratings are about maximum tolerance before break up or before destruction. Would it be unwise to use the Gold on its own with a 100w OTS in normal band settings?

Thanks. I had the feeling that another Gold would be the best option  ;)

Let's put it this way... It's to expensive to use only one Gold with 100W amp.

You definitely need two.
 ;)

Gold is ONLY 50 WATT!!! (it can be OK with 60 watt but....) so two golds would be perfect, fantastic really. heavy tough!

 :)

If a 1x12 is desired, I believe Weber makes 100 watt versions of his Blue Dog and Neodogs.  Scumback offers 100 watt version of their Scumnico.

Well I have to say it because the original post said, "Please don't tell me Vintage 30's."

I have only tried V30's because that is what's loaded in my Port City Wave cabinet. I'll eventually get around to trying different speakers but for now it's V30s. Sorry.

Hello PickMaster,

I'm new to the forum and have just ordered an OTS.  Cool list.  Interested in your opinion if you wouldn't mind.

I'm looking at having two 112 open back cabs.  Play at mid level clubs and festivals so mostly medium volumes.  What would be a good pair of 12's that might compliment each other. I'm not looking for Ford or Santana at all.  Just a great pair for the amp and complimentary speakers. 

Also have you any experience with Altec 417-8C? I have had a cab in storage for ages and it has two of em.  Definitely over 20 years old. 

Thanks so much,

KV

Hi KV,

Thanks for asking.
I’m not a top expert in acoustics but from experience I always (almost) follow a golden rule of “more is better”.
If you have 50w amp or 100w you will be happy with 100+ w speaker.
For me EV and fane AXA12 would be the top choices.
Both has loads of bass which is great in open back cab and their sensitivity are also high : 100 and 101 db. They are great for any style as well.

I don’t have any experience with Altec 417-8C, sorry.

Thank you sir! I'll research that.

Anybody have info or experience with the Altec 417 8c?  These were manufactured in the 70's (mine 73 to be exact).  The best quote I've heard is that they are like JBL's that have learned to relax (not as spikey).  Thought that was pretty funny. 

KV

I found some old interview of Alexander Dumble mentioning speakers.  Looks like he used to use Altecs until '79 then moved to EV.

After experimenting with various speakers, what do you favor?

I've gone with everything, there are a lot of things I still like. The most versatile is the EV. But all manufacturers, include Altec and JBL, make wonderful speakers that do specific jobs other speakers can't do. I divide speakers into two classifications: the efficient and the low-efficient. Both are very useable. Low efficiency speakers are things like Celestion and Jenson and PAS. Usually because of the physical construction, they don't get the same acoustic level per watt as the Altecs, JBLs, and EVs do. There's an advantage to that, because you can make the amplifier work harder to get the same acoustic level, and a whole different kind of harmonic structure results. I love the sound of JBLs, especially for chords, but I had a lot of trouble with 4" voice coil not traveling in a linear fashion. The actual coil would short out against the magnet structure. The Altecs didn't do that, so I was using them up until '79, when EV started coming out the the EVM series.

Hi
    I have got a chance of 2 x70s Electrovoice SROs 8ohm I currently use a EVM12 L  can anyone tell me there opinion of the SROs as I cant try them till next wed. I use a 50 w HRM paired with a marshall 2553.

                             cheers Derek

my experience is that the higher the power the speaker the more warm and ounded it sounds... probably due to the extra mass in the voice coil. i reckon its better to match the speaker the wattage of the amp you are using so you dont do so at the expense if the highs.


DR Ika, i agree with you on Fanes... i have a 70's AC30 with specially made fanes (made for vox)...they have an excellent tone and dont lose their clarity when turned up. mmaybe a little more agressive sounding than celestions, but excellent for sound projection at high volumes.

Personal tastel, but I use EVM12l and Two Rock 1265R loaded in separate 1x12 cabs.  EVM12L and TR1265R come together nicely IMO.  If I had one speaker to choose, EVM12l.

I see several mentions of Celestion Golds and Weber Blue Dogs, but none of the Eminence Red Fang, which is a similar speaker, and is my personal favorite.  I had a chance to try an OTS about 10 days ago, and would love to get one, and I'm just curious how it would sound with a Red Fang.  (So I don't have to buy a cabinet or speaker).  If I play with these same guys again, I'll take my 1x12 Red Fang cabinet and try it out.

I also have a Texas Heat that I used to use in a Dr Z Maz 38, which has been mentioned several times, and a Tonker.  Someone said they liked the Tonkerlite, but I read on The Gear Page that the Tonker did not sound good with Dumble clones.

Obviously it means a lot more for me to actually try the amp with these speakers, but I don't have the amp.  Also, I don't need to sound like Robben Ford...I just want to sound great.  Then I'll be more inspired to practice until I play great.

John