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Author Topic: Attenuator reccomendations invited  (Read 10004 times)
rockbeare
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« on: August 03, 2012, 12:53:12 PM »
I have a recently-acquired Overtone Special HRM with Mercury Magnetics, running through a vintage EV-12L speaker in a Custom Cab Co ported closed-back Thiele cab.

I think it's fantastic, makes all my other amps sound like (cheap) toys.

But it's loud, often too loud for some of the gigs I play.  So I'm thinking of knocking it back with an adjustable attenuator.  There are quite a few on the market, but the marketing blurb is full of hype and voodoo.

Anybody got any experiences, good or bad, to share on the subject?

Thanks   
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T Wilcox
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« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2012, 04:19:43 PM »
Get a K or C-lator. Allows you to turn your master up on the amp then use the return on the whatever-lator as your volume knob

Todd
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CeeEm
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« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2012, 11:09:41 PM »
Exactly as Todd says. The C-lator will eliminate the need for an attenuator as well as add to the sound of your amp.

Cliff
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212Mavguy
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« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2012, 12:07:09 AM »
What the above guys said...but FWIW I have a 100 watt rated Weber MASS.  Good attenuator with some great line out features that I have not seen another attenuator with.  I don't like having my amp miced, this is a better solution for me.
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rockbeare
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2012, 09:02:57 PM »
Thanks, guys.  Right now I'm using a Fuchs Verbrator in the loop, which gives me reverb and a tube-driven loop for modulation fx on those occasions I want them. It's also compact and can sit on my second pedalboard (the one in the amp's loop for mod fx - the first board is for pre-input stomps like wah, treble boost and a couple of nice od's, again only when the gig calls for it).

If I were to substitute a -lator, I could use the Verbrator or my Boss RV5 in the -lator's loop for reverb, and add other mod fx in front when I need them, but it would add some bulk. Although I also have several high-end rack fx, I don't really want to mix stomps, amp and racks. I don't have a road crew!

But I'm confused. I want to use higher settings of the master because I prefer the resulting tone, detail and touch-sensitivity, but the result is usually too loud.  An attenuator sits after the master and power amp, so it would control the end volume while maintaining tone (within reason).

Anything in the loop would certainly be before the power amp, but before or after the master? And would I not lose the harder-working amp component of the sound? Also, my amp is dark enough without the 'smoothing' effect referred to in the -lator manuals.

I'm mindful that this forum is populated by people who understand electronics and build and tweak their own amps, whereas my amp is ready-made and I'm just a player, albeit one with very high ambitions, so I hope my questioning isn't too idiotic.

Thanks again.
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212Mavguy
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2012, 05:02:15 AM »
Yup, it sounds wierd, but the reason that so many advise to use a C-lator is because it's possible to set the main amp's master volume up where you like, and yes, even though it's before the PI, because of the way the C-lator works (thank you HAD!)you can get some surprisingly good tones at small venue volumes.  I was skeptical until I got one.  It also works on loops of other amps of mine similarly to great effect, like my Mesa Maverick.  With that said, I like my 50w OTS better without a c-lator, and my TC Nova pedal works great in the loop with or without C-lator just fine.

Clarifying my previous post about the Weber MASS attenuator, I can use it for the "direct balanced line out" thang with minimal attenuation.  I usually leave the "scrunch down" dial wide open for volume.  The harmonic content from this method going to the board is MUCH more detailed and rich than what comes out of any speaker in my experiences.  I usually end up dialing back gain for both channels a bit, they sound more hairy at slight distortion through the house than if the speakers were mic'ed, due to that tonal detail.   So with some amps playing out I'd use both "lator and Weber MASS for it's balanced line out.  But my OTS sounds best with only the MASS played out because my FX is compatible with the naked loop, and that amp sounds fine at lower volumes with the power tubes I stuck in it.
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Pickmaster
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 08:28:33 AM »
Hi,
I’m sure you like  the EV but you can consider FDM speakers with built in 9db attenuator.
Check this out

Here is a REIGNMAKER - topy British tone
http://www.gearwire.com/eminence-fdm-reignmaker-speaker-demo.html

and here is a MAVERICK   smooth US tone
http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Maverick
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 08:37:10 AM by Pickmaster » Logged
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212Mavguy
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 03:14:29 PM »
Good call on the speakers....
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rockbeare
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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2012, 09:03:51 AM »
Very interesting.  Anybody got any first-hand experience of using one of these things?

My limited experience of variable wattage amps and attenuators is very, well, variable!  Some systems seem to introduce distortion as wattage is decreased or attenuation increased, whereas I'm just looking to find and keep a tone and then calm things down a bit at the back end....

And then there's the issue of adjusting the speaker in a closed-back cab.  Aarrgh!

More views welcomed....
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wyatt
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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2012, 04:49:16 PM »
Quote from: rockbeare on August 08, 2012, 09:03:51 AM
Very interesting.  Anybody got any first-hand experience of using one of these things?

My limited experience of variable wattage amps and attenuators is very, well, variable!  Some systems seem to introduce distortion as wattage is decreased or attenuation increased, whereas I'm just looking to find and keep a tone and then calm things down a bit at the back end....

And then there's the issue of adjusting the speaker in a closed-back cab.  Aarrgh!

More views welcomed....


Yeah, closed back would pretty much eliminate the FDM's.

The downside to FDM's is you have to pick from the two speakers Eminence offers, instead of whatever speaker you prefer, and they are stuck in one cabinet or combo.  You get either their rather generic Celestion-style speaker or their rather generic clean JBL style speaker and nothing to competes with an EVL.

The FDM's give up up to 9db of attenuation, which can get you power tube saturation at gig volumes, but not necessary household or definitely not bedroom volumes. A good Airbrake-style attenuator can easily do 9db without any major degradation.

And I certainly don't see how an attenuator is a hassle...for a head/cab it's one extra cable, for a combo, it may be two. And one good attenuator can be used for every amp in a collection. And they don't require walking behind a cab to adjust.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 04:50:50 PM by wyatt » Logged
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