Ceriatone Forum

Hey all, I'm new to the Ceriatone forum so hello from Australia.

Anyway, I just got a 50watt HRM OTS (used, sorry Nik) and i am blown away by this amp. I have been a confirmed Mesa nut for the last 20yrs and owned Caliber 50+, Mk III, DC-5, rack setup with Groove Tubes preamp and Boogie 50/50 power section and most recently a Mk IV. I really thought that the Mk IV would be the last amp I ever owned but..........I stumbled accross the HRM in my local music store and was awestruck by how responsive it was. As It turns out my favorite players are all Dumble users ie SRV, Carlton, Ford, Santana. I now know they get a lot of their tones (yeah I know fingers are the most important part, Lol). A lot of it is the crazy magic in the Dumble circuit that Nik has copied (enhanced?) in these amps.
 
I gotta tell you though, the amp scared the hell outa me at first. I mean i'm used to responsive amps but this thing is at a whole other level. It makes me bring my 'A' game and is a direct conduit for my playing. If you play like crap or lazy the amp spanks you but if you are 'on' it rewards you. The range of tones and the touch sensitivity are awesome, its really something else!

And Nik is fantastic. His response to my emails was first class. Thanks Mate.

I know what you mean. I have had an all Mesa stereo setup w/ 50/50 at one time too. I also owned a couple Fenders Twins at one time. But the HRM 50 was a whole new experience. Your decription of the touch sensitivity is right on. They're beautiful amps.  8)

Do you know when the amp was built?

Thanks Soundperf. Re the build date, is there a way to tell ie serial number etc?

Nice to hear your story. I bought a new OTS HRM 50watt direct from Nik about a year ago. My first D-style. Incredible amp. Ive had nice Boogies,Fenders and Marshalls. Had to sell it and some other things due to the ecomony,but will get another soon. May try the Ford or the Bluesmaster. Am anxious to get one.
What is your impresson of the OD and the clean channel? Are you going to spring for a D_lator?

You know I'm not sure. I built mine so I don't know if Nik puts a S/N or date on it somewhere. Email Nik and ask. He's great about communicating about all things amps, especially if it's one of his.

I was thinkin about one of the 'Plush Fuchs' tube fx loop buffers, but for now i've got all the fx out front and just an earthquaker reverb in the loop.

Thoughts? How much tone is being sucked by the reverb in the loop unbuffered?

hey mate

great to see another aussie in here
i have a HRM as well

are you in melb?

Mine had my name, model of the amp, mods, and the build date written on it.

Another HRM 50 user here in Perth, good to see some Aussies getting onboard with great amps

BTW mine has a stick on label inside near the PT with the build date

hey guys

i sell speakers and guitar parts and get good deals on EV12L's if interested

just get in touch and i'll do my best i can.... a HRM without an EV is like a Monaro without mags...lol

Or Toast without Vegemite

A bit late, I bought a EVM12L about 6 months ago from the US

...I prefer Marmite!  ;D

devil worshiper, evil doer!!!lol :D

real men eat vegemite!!

Marmite is the work of Satan

All right, that's just too much for me to take.  Meet me after church so I can kick yer butts... 

JK

 :D :D :D :D :D ;)

Now that i have lived with this amp a bit and gigged it................. I am still in awe of the responsiveness and tone esp in a live setting. Im now thinkin of getting another, maybe an OTS or an Fm. Just for some thing else.

Thoughts appreciated.

The problem I have with having more than one OTS at the moment is when I play one of them I always feel like Im leaving the other one out :-[ Makes me sad.
Maybe ran in stereo they would be less lonesome, but then I would be leaving my 2550 out. Not gonna happen.

Todd

I saw a screaming deal on fleabay for an OTS by Marsh amps, the fsx-50 Overlord.  Uses C-tone boards, Mercury PT and Heyboer OT.  Got mine with half power switch, OD trim on back panel, and lift negative feedback switch.  'Bout tore my face off the first time I played through it in a good way a la Marshall-y tone with the negative feedback lifted, more of an effect than with the same feature on the HRM.   Like the HRM, a huge tone palette but can still do the classic smooth oozy D-style sustain.  Running GE blackplate, or Sylvania grayplate 6bg6ga's with adaptors in my OTS, wonderful sounding and once I got the adaptors, 6bg6ga's are affordable, as in cheaper than modern 6l6's with better tone IMHO. 

Wilcox,
You should be ashamed of yourself hurting your amps feelings!!Get an AB Pedal.

I am ashamed. I do have an ABY but the problem is I have 4 amps at the moment. I guess thats not a bad problem to have. I need to get a ABCDX pedal ;) Oh and 2 more speaker cabs ;D

where's ya find the adapters at? i've been curious since ya started talking about em ;)

Shhh! dont tell anyone

http://www.vacuumtubes.com/6BG6.html

cool! that's the first place i found when i did a google search too. thanks!

Gregg

FWIW, got my adaptors off fleabay from a seller named ayumitubes.  they fell apart pretty quickly due to lack of adhesive.  So I got myself some gel style CA glue and reglued them with a more liberal application of the new glue, they have stayed together just fine.  Bias the Sylvania units somewhere between high 30's and low 40's in your D-clone.  Bias the GE blackplates in the low 30's like you would do with el34's.  RCA blackplate 6bg6ga's have the lower wattage plates, I would not use them in a D-clone.

Hey guys-

I'm an aussie as well =) Perth.

Thinking about getting an OTS soon- what you guys using for a buffered loop?

I'm not an Aussie, but I'll jump in here... You mean besides the Dumbleator/C-lator (Tube) and the Klienulator (Solid State)?

Yeh, I've been looking at Fuchs verbrator, looks more portable and has reverb

I've seen something somewhere about a guy picking up one of those in the last couple of months.  He was very happy, but there were also some that had used a Verbrator that weren't.  I know, not real helpful without a link....

I went with a G-Major II through a C-lator AND a Suhr Minimix II (as soon as the Minimix arrives).  I hope to thin out the herd of pedals on the floor!!!

Kevster

When you get this set-up completed, could you map out how you route the Suhr Minimix II, G major II and the C-lator?

Thanks, Cliff

not to thread jack, but i was interested in this a few months ago and this was the consensus on the best way to run the mini mix with the c-lator for parallel mode and keep the c-lator as a global master


Preamp Out=>C-lator In=>C-lator Send=>Mini Mix in=>Mini Mix Send to effects=> Mini mix return from effects=>Mini Mix Out=>C-Lator Return=>Power Amp In


hope this helps!!

Gregg

That was my plan...

glad i could help, Cliff!

Gregg

I got mine a week ago. I'm happy but not thrilled. My previous amp was a DRRI. The cleans on the DRRI are definitely better, but the HRM comes close in some aspects.

As for overdrive, I like how chords are crunchy and single notes are smooth. To me it sounds very similar to my DRRI with a few good pedals, but smoother and better note articulation. I imagine it as how the Blackface overdrive should be but isn't.

Overall I'm happy but didn't expect it to be as similar to my other amp as it is (yes I realise it is based on the same circuit to some extent).

PS. I don't really see how it is that versatile. It can do rock and blues easily but I don't see how it's different in that respect to other 2 channel amps.

I gigged with it last weekend at an outdoor venue so I had it cranked pretty high. I guess I must have had pretty high expectations due to all the hype. Granted I didn't have much chance to dial and it wasn't broken in. Not saying I hate it. I definitely like it and the sustain and articulation on notes compared to other amps I've tried is great. Really good overdrive but the other guitarist's Marshall combo was just as good in the mix (but obviously a different sound). Although the overdrive is a lot treblier than what I'm used to but that might just be an unbroken in speaker. I had a hard time dialling that out.

I had some major problems with the clean though. To get it to the same level as the OD channel I had to turn the volume and master volumes high and it sounded so bad - like I had a slow tremolo or something on. I eventually got something useful by dialling back the volumes but I don't think the clean channel can keep up with the OD at all.

Sorry to be so negative. I probably just need more time with it but please share any hints you have.

Like Homesick, I was thinking the same thing. If you just got this amp a week ago then you don't have a clue what this amp is about yet. I sat with it for a month on the bench tweaking at the internal trimmers. And then after that I took it out of the head and adjusted based on the break-in. But from the beginning and all along I new I had a special amp.

Getting the most out of it makes it not a "plug & play" type of thing. And also, the C-lator does add quite a bit of more sonic possibilities. It's been about 9 months since I built it and somedays I still think it's breaking in yet. Very likely changes in the tubes life. Which brings up another aspect. I have never had an amp that can react so differently based on the tubes in it. So if you haven't experimented with tubes yet, that's another aspect. I wouldn't do any of this until you get it broken in for a month or so.

I will say that if I would have owned an amp like this twenty years ago, I wouldn't have had a clue what to do with it. I just had not advanced enough in terms of my ear, playing and what I wanted out of my equipment to get what it was all about.

I've had the Fuchs Verbrator for almost 6 months now with my Son's HRM and luv it.
The parallel loop I think it's the cat's meow with delay and any time based effects in it!
 

It was about a 150 hours before my HRM settled down. HUGE difference from first week when i finished building, I don't think this can be said enough. Also watching my Son's playing style change over a couple of months or so had a big effect also.
 

I concur with the others - you need to break the amp in - and have patience.
The tones on most of the YouTube clips knocked me out, but I was quite disappointed with my OTS (non-HRM) at first.  After a little while, I noticed it seemed to sound better after being powered up for a couple hours.  After another little while, it was sounding pretty good without a long warm-up.
Then, when I thought it was broken in, I switched from Mesa 6L6's to JJ's and that made quite an improvement.
I haven't got a C-lator yet.  Instead, I wired up a 250K pot to make an attenuator. So I go Loop Out->my attenuator->Alesis Nanoverb->ART tube preamp.  To my surprise, this extra stuff in the signal path really improved things another notch.    With that extra stuff in the loop, the amp is smoother, and seems to want to go into that infinite sustain mode more readily than with nothing in the loop.
I've had my OTS for over 6 months now - played a bunch of gigs with it, and I'm still tweaking - experimenting with speakers, etc.  But I'm now very happy with the amp, find it very versatile and tonefull.   

Also, the gain structure is different from most amps. Nik says for max headroom, set the MV about noon and the Volume between noon and 2 o'clock.  Unlike most amps, the MV is situated before the Loop Out.  That's why, even with the MV down fairly low, but without my attenuator, the Nanoverb clipped easily - though the light stayed green.

On one hand, we all want amps that just sound great right away.  The OTS is not like that, but the reward for all the tweaking and patience is tone that you can't get from other amps.

Thanks for the replies. I am definitely getting a better tone with it now but still having headroom issues. I don't know if something is wrong or if I expect too much but hopefully I can sort it out. Apparently it is supposed to be very loud and clean but mine isn't.

Btw does anyone else have this problem where you are playing something with the drive up high and then stop, and it continues to have a high pitched squeal, and the only way to stop it is to turn the OD channel level down - turning the guitar volume down doesn't do anything. It doesn't happen all the time but it's annoying at gigs because it makes me sound unprofessional.

The only way for us to get even a close understanding of what you're referring to is to explain in detail where all knobs are set, guitar and pups being used, type of speakers, tubes, etc. A sound clip or even better a video clip of these issues would be great also. Like when you talk about not being happy with the headroom. One persons clean is anothers not so clean. The HRM's clean channel is not spanking clean, but it's capable of getting a very nice clean tone. Once again how hard you're driving the amp is a big factor.

When you talk about "high pitch squeal" the first thing I think of other than a microphonic tube is when an amp is up so high with certain guitars/pups and in close proximity and the amp is clipping uncontrollably. A power tube that has lost its vacuum can go into intermittent squealing. I had an amp that had a bad tube due to shipping that would go crazy everytime I hit a low G.

How familiar are you with tube amps? The reason I ask is I recently realized that I have just been using tube amps all my life and know most all the little idiosyncracies of tubes and tube amps. While others are just becoming aquanted with them and not prepared for some of the issues.

It could very well be that something is wrong with your amp. Try to record some clips at different volume levels and post them. Or maybe taking it to a trusted tech in your area and get it assessed.

I agree with Chris. Sounds like one or more of your tubes is/are microphonic. Sounds like at least a preamp tube and possibly one or more (can't remember if you have a 50 or 100 watter) are shot.

Hope this helps

Gregg

Well the knobs are pretty much volume on 12, master volume about 11/12 - just where I can get the best compromise between clean and loud. EQ is all knobs at 12. Speaker is a WGS ET-65 and the tubes are the ones Nik puts in there (JJs?). Amp is 50 watt standard HRM. My definition of clean is that there is no break up. A comparison would be my previous amp, a DRRI. When it gets to about 4 it starts to break up with a Jensen C12K. Having it on three was more than enough volume and it didn't break up, but the HRM does so at the equivalent of about 2 on the DRRI. My main guitar is just a Strat with Texas Specials (and a HB in the bridge). Yes they're hot, but no problems with the DRRI.

I've had 4 tube amps (out of 5 total). I've changed tubes heaps of times. The squeal is feedback. I've never experienced anything like it. It could well be a tube, but I'll have to change them out when I get a chance. I'll do some clips asap and post the settings. Maybe I am expecting too much, but I can't use it un-miced and that is disappointing so hopefully it is a tube.

on the clean side if you have it biased properly, between 35-37ma it shoudn't break up on the clean channel that much. Have you checked the bias?

Gregg

Nope but will do. Where's the adjustment pot?

in between V4&V5.

here's a link to the manual to help out too

http://ceriatone.com/Manuals/ceriatone%20hrm%2050w%20100w%20manual.pdf


Gregg

Thanks. Don't worry, I have read it a few times and consulted with Nik. I'm not just here complaining without having tried anything to fix it. I'll let you know once I've messed with the tubes and bias.

cool, man. i hope you get it all sorted out

Gregg

Ok, something is definitely not right. You don't have it too cranked at all.

Sorry if I forgot some info you already gave, :-[ I don't always have time to go back over the whole thread and forget the details. I remember now that you said you had a DRRI before. But, if this amp was shipped from Ceriatone, I would feel it almost a necesassity to check the bias immediately just to be sure it didn't get moved somehow in shipping. Also, the first thing I would do with an amp that was shipped so far and not performing properly is start troubleshooting with known good tubes.

I don't think anyone is suggesting you're complaining over nothing. What has Nik suggested? He is excellent at responding to problems and questions. But you will have to follow his suggestions.

Finally, I can tell you that a bad tube can cause all kinds of strange problems that can be intermittent and very perplexing and the only fix is a good one in its place. It could be a failed component internally and that will be more complicated to figure out.

I hope you get it figured out.  :)

Yep I have a Kleinulator. I won't get a chance to test anything until next week though. Looking forward to getting stuck into it.