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| |-+  JCM 800 2203, 2204, 2550, 2555
| | |-+  Biasing newly built ptp wired jcm800 2203
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Author Topic: Biasing newly built ptp wired jcm800 2203  (Read 17608 times)
jcm800man
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« on: July 04, 2008, 11:13:24 AM »

I'm going to get a jcm800 2203 from nik at ceriatone with PPIMV mod in the pack2+JJ El34 tubes+ head cab package deal. I am fairly confident with the soldering and building of the amp and my father is trained in using a soldering iron as part of his job teaching welding and fitting ect... But the only thing I am unsure of is biasing and setting the new amp up.
If i was retubing say a second hand amp with the exact same tubes or doing a bias check on an old amp i would be probably right. It's just setting up and testing a new amp isn't as easy as retubing.

Could someone explain this in simple idiots form. Lol... I understand how to work out what Ma to set poweramp tubes at you need to divide tube dissipation by the plate voltage and that give you 100% and as tubes run best at about 70% you divide by .7
So say that plate voltage was 470 and the EL34's tube dissipation is 25watts it would be 25 devide by 470 = 53Ma then times by .7 which = 37Ma.
My questions are:

how do you work out/measure plate voltage?

dose nik's ceriatone jcm 800 2203 have a bias trim pot that ajust all vavles and if so were is it located using nik's jcm800 diagrahm?

Are pre-amp tubes self biasing if not how do you bias these?

many thanks in advance!!!!!!!!

P.s. this will be my first build
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 11:17:55 AM by ryan.kroemer » Logged

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bloodedge
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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2008, 06:20:41 PM »

>>how do you work out/measure plate voltage?
Go to ceriatone website, see the JCM800 2003 schematic, it have a 1Ohm 1 watt resistor on pin 1-8 of the powertubes. some dosent have it some do, if it dont you can add it. that is for the bias, idle current.

the plate voltage is on in 3 if am not wrong. But remember to really take care when taking reading into tube amp, if you dont know what your doing aska  question before and if you dont feel confortable with what your doing get someone else make it.

then you can take reading across the resistor.
ie: 1 probe to chassis and the other at the other end of this resistor.

>>dose nik's ceriatone jcm 800 2203 have a bias trim pot that ajust all vavles and if so were is it located using nik's jcm800 diagrahm?

Yes amp come with a pot mounted on the circuit(some have a resistor instead).
You can ask for a external bias mod, it will allow you to do this part outside the amp.
The bias pot adjust the power valve(the preamp one dosent need bias adjustment) separatly, except for a dual bias mod that allow you to set bias for both power tubes.
As for where this pot is on the circuit  i included a picture with a red arrow showing where this bias pot is mounted.

>>Are pre-amp tubes self biasing if not how do you bias these?
Yes they are, no bias adjustment for them.

I never build an amp, but am soon to get into it Smiley.
the metroamp guide is good. lot of info for the first assembly, powerup and testing etc.

If you have more question do not hesitate, people here will enjoy answering you Smiley.


* JCM800_2203Ceriatonebiaspot.jpg (273.52 KB, 1631x971 - viewed 3184 times.)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 06:32:46 PM by bloodedge » Logged
jcm800man
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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2008, 04:09:57 AM »

THANKS VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HELP VERY GOOD!
found this somewhere on another forum thought i would post here for all to read

Here's how I do it:

1) If not using a bias probe, you need to have a 1 ohm resistor on each power tube socket (one end of resistor to ground; the other end tied to pins 1 & 8 ) Use a 1% tolerance resistor.

2) Turn power on and let tubes warm up. Switch standby to "on".

3) *Be very careful on this step (high voltages)*
Set your meter to the highest DC volts (600 or higher) and put the common (ground) lead in one of the chassis mounting nuts or alligator clip it. With one hand behind your back for safety, touch the positive lead to pin 3 (plate) of one of the power tubes. This is your plate or "B+" voltage. Write it down.

4) EL34's are 25 watts max and you want to set the bias to be between 60% and 70% maximum dissipation watts. (60% = 15 watts; 70% = 17.5 watts) Divide your desired wattage by your plate voltage from step 3. (example: 15/450 = .033 or 33mV) This is your desired bias voltage (probably between 30 and 40 mV).

5) Set your meter to lowest DCV setting (200mV or less) and touch the ground lead to the ground side of the 1 ohm resistor and the positive lead to the pin 1 side. Do this on all power tubes and adjust the tube with the highest value to your desired bias voltage from step 4.

Plate voltage will change a little when adjusting the bias so you may need to take another reading from pin 3 and adjust your equation accordingly and repeat steps 4 & 5.

And here is what nik sent me about biasing his amps

Ryan,
 
  The amp has only 1 bias pot. The tubes should match.
 
  All you need is a multimeter, and read in DC Volts.
 
  There are 4 jacks, 1 for each power tube, and 1 neg jack for the earth.
 
  Just adjust for 1 tube. Since the others match, the readings will be similar.
 
  Preamp tubes are self biasing, just plop em in,
 
Hope this helps, let me know.
 
_________________
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jcm800man
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2008, 04:13:59 AM »

Yeh thanks i see it on nik's 2203 diagrahm
it gose
Ground --> resistor --> pin 1 --> pin 8

I thought that was the bias pot but wasn't 100% shure.

I'm trying to learn as much as i can before i get the amp so when i do i am well ahead.
I read the metroamp 100watt plexi instructions from start to finish that help heaps in things like you must wire the heater wire tightly together in order to cancel hum ect...

If you have the jcm800 2203 from nik, if it's not too much trouble would you post a large/medium inside pic so that i can see your wiring and compare with mine as i build
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 04:27:15 AM by ryan.kroemer » Logged

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jcm800man
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2008, 04:52:23 AM »

On nic's layout the lines that go from cont... to dotted on main circ..board go under the board don't they?
and the lines that are only dotted on board are pre installed by nik when builds your board for the pack 2 kit and also are under board? I have inc.. a pic with these pointed out in green arrows Smiley


* JCM800_2203Ceriatonebiaspot 2.jpg (275.76 KB, 1631x971 - viewed 5935 times.)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 04:54:51 AM by ryan.kroemer » Logged

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bloodedge
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2008, 02:47:34 PM »

the first instruction you give is a good procedure(that is how am biasing mine, except am taking idle current reading from outside the amp with the external bias jack).

the second instruction(that nik sent) is for use with the external bias mod like i do/have, but still have to poke inside the amp for take plate Voltage reading, but the power dosent move much there, so i take the plate reading once in a while and just check the bias and set if needed using my previous plate voltage reading.

For the 1 bias pot, it is indeed not a problem with matched tubes, just when you will buy tube you have to pay for matched (but it is a good thing, just my personnal trough).

Also, i dont have the jcm800, i have one 1 amp yet, but i dont need any other lol, i got anything i whant from it Cheesy. For pictures i can post some if needed, i didnt wire the amp, i ordered it completly assembled(with cab and speaker). also nik have some jcm800 picture on the website too There

The dotted lines look to go under the board indeed, can check with the pictures.
I am also pretty sure they come preinstalled under the board, wire to pot are included from the picture so the underboard wiring should be there.

What it dosent show well on schematic is transformer wiring, i just tell it in case you didnt know, i noticed this a few month ago.

Also, external jack for the bias reading(like nik said 1 red for each powertube + 1 black for the ground) or a bias probe, is really helpfull, external bias pot may be a good option too Smiley.

like the instruction said, be really careful.

Hope it help Smiley
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jcm800man
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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2008, 04:03:59 PM »

I am still making up my on weather to build the 2203 or 2204. the 2204's diagrahm is alot more clearer and better drawn. I feel i easily tackle the 2204. if you could load up a pretty large pic for me to look at that would be good. about same size as nic's diagrahm you loaded up.
it would also make up my mind on what one to build as either amp will be loud enough for gig use (playingat pubs and clubs) As for biasing i will use internal bias method testing resistor that runs on valve sockets across pin 8-1-resistor-ground. This is my first build adding external bias might complicate the build too much.
thanks ryan
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bloodedge
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« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2008, 04:59:37 PM »

the 2204 will be a little bit easier.
Starting with a JCM800 2203 may be tough.. i think.

As for pic of my amp, i have the inside fo chassis taken in 3 part from top, then 3 from a side and 3 from the other. i included 3 pic from top/inside chassis in a zip files, i can add mroe if needed. note, it is not a JCM800 but the JTM45 BluesBreaker.

As for how loud they be, i dont know for the JCM800 as i enver tyed one and not one from nik.
What i know is nik's amp are loud Cheesy


* JTM45BB.zip (542.24 KB - downloaded 502 times.)
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jcm800man
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2008, 10:06:19 PM »

Yeh, I'm gunna do whatt joe popp did build say 2 then sell them to get money back to buy a new one and also get the experience and then build maybe the 2203 on the third one when i have the exoerience under my belt.
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bloodedge
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2008, 02:23:26 PM »

Yeah, these are like art, beautifully sounding and even beautiful looking Smiley.

since am young i really like music/guitar/tube amp, and i was usedto soldering iron since am 7 years old lol was repairing anything i could...
When i got my first one and to see all the shinny pict of the build on forums..

It impossible for me not to build one anymore lol.
Just need to wait for now, have to repair the car first Sad.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 02:28:05 PM by bloodedge » Logged
jcm800man
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« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2008, 04:51:29 AM »

sorry about the delay couldn't get into this site for about 1 week had to reset my modem when i found out othr people had acess and it was just me who could not get in.
yeh will be ordering one in about 2weeks. i'm thinking of doing a step-bystep instructions for the jcm800 and loading it on this site with lots of pics. like metroamps instructions i found on there forum. Grin
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