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Author Topic: Am I missing something? I must be  (Read 15524 times)
simbot
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« on: June 03, 2010, 01:17:55 AM »

Ok, I'm new to this site.  I'm trying to get some basic information but can't seem to find it.  Am I not looking in the right place, or is it simply not on the site?

I'm looking for information about these amps/kits like:

A general description, what kind of an amp is it trying to be?  Is it supposed to sound like some well know amp (some are obvious, many are not).  Lots of clean headroom? high gain? etc. 

How many watts is it?   What controls does it have?  master volume, treble, mid, bass, reverb?  I can't really tell from the pictures.  This info HAS to be there somewhere doesn't it?  For the life of me I can't find it if it does.  If it isn't there, that's totally unacceptable and is a deal-breaker for me.  I can't do business with an outfit that doesn't see fit to provide such basic info.
 
What does the kit include?  What kind of instructions does it come with, an example of the instructions would be nice.

Am I just missing it?  If i am, it means that the web site is very poorly laid out.
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72sg
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« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2010, 03:49:51 AM »

You have correctly observed the shortcomings of Ceriatone.com and Ceriatoneforum.com. The basic information you want is not readily available. Ceriatone does not provide amp descriptions, much less specs or objective sound clips.

However, anyone with even a cursory knowledge of guitar amps can easily glean which classic amp models Nik is producing. All models have layouts which clearly show the amp's controls, components and tube compliment. Wattages will fairly faithfully follow the classic amp being reproduced.

I don't think it's very difficult to understand what's included in the kits. The kits include EVERYTHING needed to complete the amp chassis, and Nik simplifies the kit options by specifying what's not included, rather than what is included. So you can get a kit without tubes (nice if you already have tubes) or without transformers (transformers are heavy and some folks save a few bucks on shipping by sourcing transformers stateside, or they simply prefer sourcing their own transformers.) In this regard, Ceriatone compares favorably to ... say ... Weber, which are some of the most popular kits going (Nik uses higher quality components than Weber, but Weber kits are very affordable). To sum up, kits include all the parts -- chassis, faceplates, assembled circuit board, pots, jacks, switches, flying lead wire, transformers, tubes, caps, resistors, diodes, terminal strips, fuse holders, tube sockets, pilot lamps, bolts, nuts -- everything needed to complete the amp. Cabinetry is optional.

Assembly instructions are not provided, just the layout (same as Weber). Metropolous or Marshamps sell kits with detailed assembly instructions. Actually you can apply the Metro instructions to any Marshall build, and their instructions are online.

Your frustration is justified (see my recent vent), but if you let it be a deal breaker you're making a big mistake as these amps are a good value, meticulously hand built with good components and refined for excellent tone. I'm in Austin, TX and I'm currently waiting 5 weeks for an amp assembled in Kuala Lumpur! This will be my second Ceriatone, and I'm already planning for my third. It seems insane, but I save a little cash and that's how much I love these amps. If you think this stuff is weird, wait till you see how ordering works! Basically, you send Nik some money with a note on which amp you want, and then you wait (and wait and wait and wait) and hope you get a tracking number when it ships. Turnaround time seems to be running at least 5 weeks!!!
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 04:01:06 AM by 72sg » Logged
wyatt
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« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2010, 03:51:29 AM »

No instructions.

Many (most?) people buy Nik's amps completely built.  Others buy the kits to have all the parts and already have the know-how to read the layout.  The real important piece is the schematic, which Nik neglects, so those often require some research.  

The kits usually include a pre-assembled component board(s) and the parts to put the rest together.

Research is key, and a little will help you a lot in navigating Nik's amps.  Most are named directly off of the amp models they are based on, others are slight tongue-in-cheek names that imply what they are.

The British style are all Marshall-based or derived. 2550, 2550, JTM-45, JTM-50, JTM45/100, 1987, 1986 are all straight Marshall models, easy to research.  The Plexi 100 is pretty self explanatory (model 1959), Brown 100 invokes some EVH mods, and the Super Bass 100 is the marshall 100-watyt Super bass amp (model 1992).  The 18 watter is Marshall 1974 model, which has been huge with the DYI crowd over the last 6-7 years, there is even a website dedicate to the 18-watter that derived many variants, many Nik incorporates in some models never originally offered by Marshall, lots of info out there about TMB (Plexi tone stack) and EF86 (Vox AC15 preamp) variants of the 18-watter.  And the 36-watter is just a 18-watter with twice as large a power amp.

The American style are Fenders, mostly Tweed based.  5E3, 5E5A, 5F6-A, 5F4, 5E7 and 5E8A are all models offered b y Fender, lots of information about them on the web.  Check the Fender amp field guide.  The other three are Ceriatone derived originals... the 5X3 is a 5E3 with larger power amp, the Ultra Champ is a Champ with lots of available mods, and the prinzeton is a combination Brownface/Blackface Princeton.

Muchle$$ are Matchless based.  The Spitfire and lightning are the matchless names, the Dizzy 30 is the Matchless C-30.  The Creme Brulee is Matchless derived, the EF86 C-30 preamp in a 15-watt version.

TW Clones are Trainwreck...Express, Liverpool, Rocket

Overtones are all Dumble derived.

Hey Watts! are Hiwatts

Etc.

I don't think Nik is really catering to novices, if you don't know how to build an amp, you should go to easier kits with full instructions.  And if you really knew you way around amps I wouldn't be having to list all of these out for you.  90% of these amps are based on super popular, common amps for which there is endless amounts of schematics, mods, and deatials about on the web, why should nik regurgitate, everyone can use google.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 03:53:23 AM by wyatt » Logged
wyatt
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« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2010, 04:36:37 AM »

Sites that will help to know...

http://www.18watt.com/index.php
http://www.ampwares.com/fender.asp
http://www.drtube.com/marshall.htm
http://music-electronics-forum.com/home.php
http://www.ampage.org
http://www.weberorders.com/forum/
http://www.diytube.com/phpBB2/index.php

And this book is invaluable to know exact what component does what in an amp...
http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Amplifier-Handbook-Understanding-Amplifiers/dp/087930863X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275539753&sr=8-2

Plus, there are the Aspen Pittman and Gerald Weber books.
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simbot
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« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2010, 04:46:26 PM »

Thanks, that's very helpful.  I guess I'm just used to sellers trying to make it easy for their customers, Nik doesn't seem to think it's important.  Yes I can research and figure it out, but I don't think I should have to.   Reputable sellers usually don't place such a burden on their customers. 

In the interest of inviting more customers, and keeping them happy, most retailers try to make the buying experience a pleasant one, not fraught with frustration.

I am familiar with some of the amps offered, but many I'm not.  Maybe Nik could spend about two hours adding the info I'm talking about.  I'm sure he (and contributors like yourselves) have wasted far more time answering the same questions over an over.  Good business people find ways to do more with less, and continuously improve.  The fact that he hasn't done the above indicates that he isn't a very good businessman.  Maybe a great amp builder, but I'm not sure that's enough for me.
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wyatt
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« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2010, 05:48:38 PM »

Oh please.  Show some initiative. 

I totally agree that a small blurb to describe each amp would probably save him the hassle of answering several questions, but the guy has so much business right now he's not even been able to roll out many amps he wants to, so he's just too damn busy.  Do what you would do for any high-end consumer purchase, go out and research the models and compare what they do and make a decision about what is best suited for you.  Youtube has clips of most of Nik's models, there is plenty of info right here and tons on the other links. 

Shop for an amp kit at Weber, Metro or Marsh and you won't find much (or as much) information as Ceriatone, but they all have great forums and/or support.  They are specialty products for people who know what they want and know their way around amps. 
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 06:11:44 PM by wyatt » Logged
72sg
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« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2010, 09:48:22 PM »

I'm sorry I responded to your post as I now see you're not serious.

Ceriatone enjoys a very good reputation in the marketplace. Your entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts. The facts are Nik is a "reputable seller" and a "good businessman" in good standing in the custom amp world.

Here's a "reputable seller" that you might approve of. Maybe you would like one of their offerings.

http://www.pignoseamps.com/


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mcinku
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« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2010, 09:34:16 AM »

.... indicates that he isn't a very good businessman.  Maybe a great amp builder, but I'm not sure that's enough for me.

Hold on, there something wrong with this statement...

So you would prefer to send your money to a good businessman than to a good amp builder.
 Huh?

Good businessman to me, is somebody who can spend as little as he can to make a product and charge for as much as he can to make a profit... right?
In order to make something with minimum cost in mind, you have to use cheap parts and use "cheap" unskilled labor.

You're right Nik is not a businessman, he uses high grade parts and his guys are a pro amp builders... I doubt he's going cheap on them (for their standard obviously)... and his prices are fair. You can clearly see that this is a man who loves what he's doing... and while doing this, he does not rip off the customers.

A guy like that, can have my money anytime.
 Wink
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 12:06:53 PM by mcinku » Logged

cmoore
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« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2010, 11:54:43 AM »

Yes, you definitely are missing something.
Most amp circuits sold by Ceriatone are in the public domain. Those schematics, as you know, are readily available on the INTERNET, there would be no need for Nik to print them for you.
The other amps sold by Ceriatone are proprietary, and there are no schematics available.
Ceriatone is not Heath Kit. If you do not have knowledge of amps and electronics, you should purchase an amplifier that is already assembled.
Good Luck
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wyatt
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« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2010, 05:29:38 PM »

Yes, you definitely are missing something.
Most amp circuits sold by Ceriatone are in the public domain. Those schematics, as you know, are readily available on the INTERNET, there would be no need for Nik to print them for you.
The other amps sold by Ceriatone are proprietary, and there are no schematics available.
Ceriatone is not Heath Kit. If you do not have knowledge of amps and electronics, you should purchase an amplifier that is already assembled.
Good Luck

There is an obscure pull from the past.  Smiley

Funny, I rewired a Dynaco St-70 a couple of years ago and still have to find time to rewire the PAS preamp.  And all I can think is what a hassle this is because someone didn't do it right in 1960-61 (my best guess to the date).
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alwalt
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« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2010, 11:49:42 PM »

 Reputable sellers usually don't place such a burden on their customers.

ok. Then go buy some reputable amp and pay some reputable money for what you read on those reputable web sites. Then try to find what is crap and what is not.

Come on... or move on!
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hywelg
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« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2010, 07:36:23 AM »

Thanks, that's very helpful.  I guess I'm just used to sellers trying to make it easy for their customers, Nik doesn't seem to think it's important.  Yes I can research and figure it out, but I don't think I should have to.   Reputable sellers usually don't place such a burden on their customers. 

In the interest of inviting more customers, and keeping them happy, most retailers try to make the buying experience a pleasant one, not fraught with frustration.

I am familiar with some of the amps offered, but many I'm not.  Maybe Nik could spend about two hours adding the info I'm talking about.  I'm sure he (and contributors like yourselves) have wasted far more time answering the same questions over an over.  Good business people find ways to do more with less, and continuously improve.  The fact that he hasn't done the above indicates that he isn't a very good businessman.  Maybe a great amp builder, but I'm not sure that's enough for me.

Maybe, just maybe Nik isn't your normal businessman. In my dealings with him (3 kits so far and gassing for a fourth) he has been anything but...... I get replies within an HOUR often, he goes above and beyond each and EVERY time I have a question, problem or order. I can truthfully say I have never had customer service better than Nik, he is the model every 'businessman' should follow as it creates happy customers who come back time after time.

And consider this.... possibly Nik realises that the customer type that he has most problems with are those who won't go and find information for themselves, so he constructs his site so that those are discouraged, given that he is running at full capacity anyway he probably does not want more customers who need nannying.
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baldy
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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2010, 01:58:34 AM »

Looks like Simbot went to buy the Pignose!! More amps for me my friends!!! L8R Chair Dance
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ampkits
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« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2010, 10:14:17 PM »

Sorry, just saw this.

Simbot has a point.

I will try to make the info.

We started that way. I mean, back then, with kits and completes, say 18W and people will know.

I guess, with so many models, I should start having a description.

This means website revamp, which is another reason we have held off for so long.

It wont be 2 hrs though. It does require some thought, for the descriptions! Smiley

Thanks!

Nik
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