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Author Topic: Les Paul Mods Finally Done!!!  (Read 12267 times)
plasticvonaband
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« on: January 14, 2012, 03:59:25 AM »

I finally finished the mods to my Nina, my Epi Les Paul i bought last year. I ended up putting the Bare Knuckle Emerald Pickups i bought for the PRS in the Les Paul instead, to try to breathe som life into the thing. All i can say is WOW. They have to be the best sounding pickups I have ever heard for a Les Paul. I can't wait to get an Abraxas set for the PRS! I also put a Bigsby B7 on with a Vibramate Mount and String Spolier. So far so good on that, but i really need some Graptech Saddles on there. I put their Tusq XL nut on, and it makes a world of difference. As far as wiring, i originally had a Les Paul toneshaper in it. It's a neat gadget, but adds alot of noise, and one the push pull pots broke, the one for the neck pickup and rendered the neck pickup useless. Not good. I ended up getting a New prewired switch from Mojotone and a 50's style harness from Martin Six String Customs with NOS PIO caps (.015 neck and .022 bridge). It is a very nicely made harness, complete with ground loop busses installed, and all pot tags soldered. Putting it into the smaller space of a modern Epi cavity was a bit of a challenge, and I KNOW it looks like a rats nest, but i sounds 1000% better than it looks. I had shielded the cavity previously, to try and quiet down the toneshaper. To ground everything, I used solder lug washers, slipped over the pot shafts, putting the Bridge pup ground and shield on the bridge volume pot, Neck pup ground and shield on the neck volume pot, the bridge and jack ground to the neck tone pot, and the switch ground and shield to the bridge tone pot. Everything was nicely grounded, and i quick check for continuity with showed no drop in continuity compared to a straight shot to ground. Also i have shielded many guitars and found no "added capacitance" or "loss of high end tone" due to the shielding. This guitar is no exception. Also, it is 99% dead quiet. The only noise is a barely audible hum from the neck pickup due ti the uneven winding, which is what gives the pup it's awesome sound, of course. Long winded post, I know, but I am very happy. It's the only good thing to happen to me this whole Friday the 13th!!  Grin

Cheers!

Gregg


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« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 05:15:27 AM by plasticvonaband » Logged

Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
AcmeGuitarWorks
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« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2012, 03:10:56 PM »

Hi, sorry to hear that you had a problem with the ToneShaper.  You've made several negative comments about it that I'd like to address.

"It's a neat gadget, but adds alot of noise"

The LP ToneShaper adds no noise whatsoever. Don't know what else was going on in your install, but absolutely, positively, the ToneShaper is completely quiet. It cannot possibly add noise to a circuit.

"one the push pull pots broke, the one for the neck pickup and rendered the neck pickup useless. Not good."

Here's my guess on this. You installed the TS into an Epiphone, and the Epiphone came with knobs that are molded for 18-tooth pot knurling.  If you look into the hole in the knob you'll see this: the 18 teeth are molded right into the plastic. If you look into the hole in Gibson knobs, you'll find that they're molded with 24 teeth, for the finer knurling pattern on USA pots (not that any pots are still made in the USA, but the 24-tooth pattern persists on CTS and some other pots).

I'm guessing you were unaware that the 18-tooth knobs that came on your Epiphone were incompatible with the 24-tooth knurling on the ToneShaper's pot shafts. On the other hand, we talk about the knurling in some detail on our website, in the description for the LP ToneShaper, so maybe you were aware of the difference, but tried to force the Epi's knobs onto the 24-tooth pots anyway. If so then you experienced a result that many other people have experienced when they did the same thing: the knobs are molded out of hard, unforgiving plastic, and trying to force them onto pots that they weren't made for can have the consequence of pushing the shaft right through the back of the pot.  Not good.

Did you try to contact us about any of this?  It'd be nice not to have to troubleshoot problems on a public forum, especially when we have every confidence that none of the problems mentioned had anything to do with our product.

George Ellison
Owner, Acme Guitar Works
Owner, ToneShapers
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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2012, 11:43:49 PM »

Hi, sorry to hear that you had a problem with the ToneShaper.  You've made several negative comments about it that I'd like to address.

"It's a neat gadget, but adds alot of noise"

The LP ToneShaper adds no noise whatsoever. Don't know what else was going on in your install, but absolutely, positively, the ToneShaper is completely quiet. It cannot possibly add noise to a circuit.

"one the push pull pots broke, the one for the neck pickup and rendered the neck pickup useless. Not good."

Here's my guess on this. You installed the TS into an Epiphone, and the Epiphone came with knobs that are molded for 18-tooth pot knurling.  If you look into the hole in the knob you'll see this: the 18 teeth are molded right into the plastic. If you look into the hole in Gibson knobs, you'll find that they're molded with 24 teeth, for the finer knurling pattern on USA pots (not that any pots are still made in the USA, but the 24-tooth pattern persists on CTS and some other pots).

I'm guessing you were unaware that the 18-tooth knobs that came on your Epiphone were incompatible with the 24-tooth knurling on the ToneShaper's pot shafts. On the other hand, we talk about the knurling in some detail on our website, in the description for the LP ToneShaper, so maybe you were aware of the difference, but tried to force the Epi's knobs onto the 24-tooth pots anyway. If so then you experienced a result that many other people have experienced when they did the same thing: the knobs are molded out of hard, unforgiving plastic, and trying to force them onto pots that they weren't made for can have the consequence of pushing the shaft right through the back of the pot.  Not good.

Did you try to contact us about any of this?  It'd be nice not to have to troubleshoot problems on a public forum, especially when we have every confidence that none of the problems mentioned had anything to do with our product.

George Ellison
Owner, Acme Guitar Works
Owner, ToneShapers

Hey George!

After a lil research, the noise may have been from having the independent volume control setting activated. On hardwired versions this is known to be an issue. It was a very audible amount of noise, enough for me to check and see if i reversed the leads on the jack or the grounds had come loose, but such was not the case. There have been comments as to the unit's noise on other forums as well. My control rout is completely shielded and the shield is properly grounded and the hardwire harness is dead quiet, as was the original epi harness.  I guess it's possible i got a defective unit (anything manmade can have problems).

I am aware of the differences between the us and import knob splines, and had the proper knobs on ( i ordered both knob types from ya'll) I just had it on a lil too firm, or maybe cocked a lil, and when i went to change it, it pulled the shaft out. no biggie, it has happened to all of us with push pulls before at some point (i've been playing for over two decades i've seen alot) The bad part was that it killed the neck pickup completely, probably because it was stuck in between the contacts in the switch. To be fair, purchasing a replacement push pull from a local store and desoldering the harness from the broken one and re wiring to the new one would may have fixed it, i just had alot going that day/week needed the guitar that weekend, had the other harness sitting in a box so, in it went.

The toneshaper is a great value, which is why i'm not terribly upset and ranting and raving like a lunatic about it. If it was a $300 unit, the yeah i would be upset, but since it was reasonably priced, i saw it as a fun experiment with a product that wasn't for me.  Smiley Sorry if my tone sounded overly harsh; that wasn't my intent.

I did contact you guys with my concerns, but so far, no response. To be fair, it was a holiday weekend and my email may have disappeared into the ether. Since i put the hardwire harness in, i'm not concerned about the toneshaper now, but i will prolly be ordering a loaded pickguard for a strat sometime this year  Wink


I want to make it clear that I have no grudge against you or Acme ( i had a toneshaper in my strat and LOVED it) and have always had great service, and you guys are local as i am in FL. I would also recommend the tone shaper products to anyone who wants to tinker and find their sound without alot of soldering, and will prolly try one again in my next axe.

Gregg
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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
AcmeGuitarWorks
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« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2012, 02:45:05 PM »

Hi Gregg,

Appreciate the even-handedness with which you replied, and sorry if I came across as a little thin-skinned.  Your mention of an email led me to a search for "gregg" emails in my mail client, and I did find it, so I'm responding with an apology that we never got back to you on this.

I'm going to send you two of the new Bourns push/pull pots today.  I didn't realize from reading your first post that you had purchased the unit with the interim pots, but we'll get two of the new ones out to you.  Even if you've decided you don't like the TS and plan on selling it, it'll be more valuable with the right pots.

And I see that you did in fact order knobs from us, but these wouldn't have fit the interim pots properly.  The interim pots were Alpha, and with 18-tooth knurls.  You ordered genuine Gibson knobs and imported Gibson-style knobs from us, but all of these had 24-tooth patterns molded into them, we sell no 18-tooth knobs.  So I assume that I was correct about the knobs not being the right ones for the pots, but I had it backwards: I assumed you used 18-tooth knobs on 24-tooth pots, when it was really 24-tooth knobs on 18-tooth pots.  The Bourns pots we're sending you will have 24 teeth, so all of those knobs you ordered from us will fit them.

Regarding your comment "There have been comments as to the unit's noise on other forums as well", can you point me to them?  I'm not challenging you on this, but we have a vested interest in staying on top of what's being written about the unit out there on the public sites, and a Google search for me doesn't pull anything up regarding excessive noise.  Our contention is that the unit should be inherently dead quiet, certainly as quiet as either of the other harnesses you've had in the guitar.  So I definitely want to get to the bottom of any reported trouble with the unit, because we want it to get a fair shake.  Any info is greatly appreciated.

Sorry your experience with the LP ToneShaper wasn't as positive as your experience with the Strat unit!  Also, I realize this thread wasn't started to discuss the ToneShaper, and so I'm aware that I sort of highjacked it.  Didn't want the criticisms to go unanswered though, hope you understand.

Thanks,
George
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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2012, 05:41:42 AM »

George was kind enough to send me an email of this as well. Here is my reply. Thanks again, George!

No problem, George! I appreciate you sending me out the pots. I can understand your response on the thread, it is your baby, after all!

The negative threads I have found are on the Seymour Duncan Forum, and I believe the mylespaul forum. I really think it was the independent setting that made the noise, looking back, as even in regular harnesses or can be a problem.

I will definitely keep it, though. As one Seymour Duncan forum member put it, it is a nice way to figure out what setup you like on a particular guitar without soldering and desoldering. Very cool indeed!

Thanks Again!

Gregg
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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
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