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Author Topic: Effects loop question  (Read 17879 times)
Nickp
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« on: August 25, 2009, 03:32:09 PM »

Just started playing my new dc30 last night,
I found a 808 ts sounds great to push channel 1

I'm wondering what cord exactly do I need to be able to use the effects loop?
I know it is a stereo cord but not sure which one to get,
where do I find one online or at a store location in the us



Thanks
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Trazan
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2009, 03:54:35 PM »


You need a  so called "insert" cable (or two, if you want effects on both channels). It's a stereo jack that splits into two mono jacks. Make it as short as possible as the loop is passive.
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hywelg
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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2009, 06:11:17 PM »

You can't. Its one channel or the other.
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Mitch
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2009, 02:16:28 PM »

I think the DC30 sounds better with delay & modulation before input rather than using the insert jack- just a personal thing... I use a Gigrig wetbox & pedal so I can continually control wet/dry mix with my foot - essentially it's a mini mixer with a buffer too so delay effects don't eat your tone as much as a serial send/return... just my 2 cents!
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alwalt
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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2009, 12:38:25 PM »

I run a stero cord out of the EF86 loop on the back of the amp. It goes straight to a hammond box on the pedalboard, that splits the signal into a send and return jack. On that loop I use a TimeFactor delay (great buffer) and a ge7 Monte Allum modded eq.

I like the TF better on the loop than in front of the amp. And use the eq to add some bright to the overall signal.

Now lately, I've doing some experiments mixing things at the effects loop. My latest trick (not tested yet, at least at high volume):

- I bridge both top boost and EF86 channels at the front of the amp
- I added a Boss Line Selector on the loop, that allows me to mix the effect send of both EF86 and top boost channels. The mixed signal goes to the TF and eq
- The whole signal returns trough the stereo cable to the return of the EF86

I tested it this morning and seems to work good, no hum or aditional noise. By doing this, I can bridge or use separate channels on the amp, and share the effects loop for both. I've always loved the way bridged channels sound on this amp.

But using the loop on one of the channels and the other dry (when bridged), always added some flanger effect to the overall tone. That's why I decided to mix both send signals...


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alwalt
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« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2009, 02:35:21 PM »

alwalt, the Boss Line Selector just seems to be the ticket when I want to run the two FX loops and the two channels simultaneously or separately. Great.
Do the FX loop sound ok? Nik suggested I might possibly have to use a Klein if I run my Reverb and Delay through the FX loop. Mind you, it's a different amp (the 36W EF86) but it has the same loop.

It seems to be the ticket. But let me do some test at band practice be sure of it. The LineSelector has 2 independent level control for each of the send signals received. That, and Timefactor being a very good buffer,  (and the eq ) let me compensate a small loss on tone. I run a 6mt stereo cable, so first thing I did was to A/B the signal with/without the effect loop. And so far I've been succesful with the results. I'll keep you in touch, next week I have band practice and some tests will be done!
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alwalt
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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2009, 04:11:15 PM »

Thanks alwalt, please keep me posted. Here's a question on how to use the Line Selector with a single effects chain:

I use a Y cable to connect FX loop channel 1 to Line Selector Send - A - Return.
Another Y cable to connect FX loop channel 2 to Line Selector Send - B - Return.
The effects chain (Reverb, Delay) through Line Selector Output and Input.

That way I should be able to choose via A/B/Y pedal in the front between TMB channel and loop A, EF86 channel and loop B or both channels and loops AB.

Do you think that would work? Or am I completely on the wrong track? Since you have the pedal and you're willing to experiment in your next band practice, could you test that for me? That'd be great!

Pretty much is that. Since the loop works send-tip/return-ring/sleeve-ground, I use one stereo cable from the EF86 loop (to have both send and return). But remember I split this signal on a hammond box, the send to the loop A on the LS, the return from the last effect on the chain.
What I'm trying to do is to throw a mono cable from the topboost channel loop  (this would be only tip, the send). This send signal goes to loop B on the Line Selector (that is set to A+B mode, to mix).
Then , from output on the lineselector the mixed signal goes to the effects, and return to the RETURN of the hammond box, then to the EF8 return.

But I use another lineselector in front of the amp, with 2 loops of effects for a clean or dirty setting. I could run also these to the top boost channel or the ef86, but right now I'm bridgin both channels in the amp, I like how big it sounds this way...

The Line Selector is a handy pedal, when you have one you want another inmediately!


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alwalt
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2009, 06:30:29 PM »

Pretty much is that. Since the loop works send-tip/return-ring/sleeve-ground, I use one stereo cable from the EF86 loop (to have both send and return). But remember I split this signal on a hammond box, the send to the loop A on the LS, the return from the last effect on the chain.
What I'm trying to do is to throw a mono cable from the topboost channel loop  (this would be only tip, the send). This send signal goes to loop B on the Line Selector (that is set to A+B mode, to mix).
Then , from output on the lineselector the mixed signal goes to the effects, and return to the RETURN of the hammond box, then to the EF8 return.

I must admit I lost you half way through... Do you mean "Y cable" with "stereo cable"? And why a mono cable from the topboost channel loop?
Well, I'll let you experiment in your next rehearsal. Please keep me posted on your findings. I think that pedal is probably the way to go for me. I'm just slightly confused how to hook everything up.

If my tests goes fine, I'll draw some schematic of what I did. If it doesn't, I'll let you know anyway. A "Y" cable does what my hammond box does, split the signal into send and return. I just use a regular stereo cable for comoddity, throw just one cable to the pedalboard instead of two.

The, I split the signal at the pedalboard. It's like it is a long "Y" cable.

Then I found that if I plug a regular mono cable to  the effect loop on the dc30, only the send signal will flow ("tip"). That becomes handy because I only need the send from the top boost channel. (to mix it at the LS with the send of the EF86 channel).

It took me a while to figure all of this out, will let you know if it works of if it doesn't!
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Mitch
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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2009, 11:25:06 AM »

Mitch, when you say you like the delay and modulation better "before input" do you mean running them through the front of the amp?
I saw the GigRig Wet Box mentioned here somewhere. Is it something similar like the X-Blender?

Watch this demo from the Gigrig- it explains the wet box concept much better than I can!

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alwalt
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2009, 12:50:38 PM »

ok. I tested the mixing signals idea, and it worked just fine.  I did some rough layout of it to share. I hope this becomes clearer as a picture, it is an interesting way of using the DC30...
I am using the EF86 effect loop as a send/return, and the TopBoost effect loop just as a send.


By alwalt at 2009-09-09
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alwalt
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« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2009, 04:15:09 PM »

Great to see things work out for you, alwalt.
My set up will be rather different, though. My plan is to have an A/B/Y switch in front of the amp to use the two channels both separately and combined. As you suggested I'll use a Boss Line Selector and two Y cables to use the FX loop, as per channel engaged, i.e. both separately and combined.

Do you think it will work if I connect the "In" and "Out" of the pedal chain to the Line Selector Output and Input, and then each Y cable from the FX loop channel to Line Selector "Send - A - Return" and "Send - B - Return"?

I can't try this out myself because I haven't bought a Line Selector yet.


Mind the LS2 has an A+B mix mode, AND  an A -> B mode, but it doesn't do the A/B/Y thing wihout laying down and changing the mode (one knob). Having that said, I'll try to explain how it works.

To mix the 2 sends from the amp to one chain of effects with the LS2, you must :

Set the LS2 to the A+B mix mode
Use each of the sends of the amp into A Input and B input
Plug the cable that goes from the LS2 to the effects into the OUT of the LS2. This is where the mixed signal comes out.

Once that signal passes the effects it must return to the amp, already mixed and wet. To do that, you can plug any of the returns on any of the two Y cables into the out of the effect.

This should work fine, but when you plug one of the returns of the Y cable to the amp, you will leave the other Y cable's return unplgged! That's why I suggested using one Y cable one one loop, and one mono cable on the other loop.

Please follow the signal on the layout I posted, this is pretty much it, the olny thing different is that I'm not using a Y cable, but a stereo cable that splts in 2 on a box, wich would be exactly the same.

The way you suggested won't work to share the effect chain on the loop...





A -> B
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alwalt
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« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2009, 07:54:38 PM »

This should work fine, but when you plug one of the returns of the Y cable to the amp, you will leave the other Y cable's return unplgged! That's why I suggested using one Y cable one one loop, and one mono cable on the other loop.

Ok, I think I'm slowly getting there. I will try it that way once I get the amp (it's the 36W EF86, though) and the Line Selector. Do you mean by "mono cable" just any regular guitar cable?

yep, the regular guitar cable... it will do the tip part of the loop... only the send. I asked Nik and he told me there should not be any problem by only using the send from the loop.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 08:01:40 PM by alwalt » Logged
steve_dodgson
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2012, 05:41:50 AM »

Hi guys,
I have been following this topic ever since I got my Dizzy. I have complicated life by adding a C'lator which sounds just great. However I am struggling to get a good result following the diagram posted here. When I run the C'lator into the clean channel, with my time based effects through it, it's whisper quiet and sounds awesome. However when I try to share the time based effects across the 2 FX loops, using the the Boss line selector as per your sketch, I get a lot of hum, even with the levels turned down to almost zero. I get the desired result, i.e. my time based effects are working on both channels of the amp, but its too noisy to be a real solution. Any other ideas how I can share my time based effects/C'lator across both FX loops? BTW I am using an A/B box at the front of the amp to choose between Channel 1 and 2. Cheers from Jakarta.
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DC30 with 2x12 Weber cab, kudos to Nik and Doug in Bali
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