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Website, Store => Ceriatone.com => Topic started by: ampkits on June 02, 2010, 05:55:55 PM



Title: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: ampkits on June 02, 2010, 05:55:55 PM
Hi there,

  I'd like your opinion.

  Should I just downgrade all the parts in my amps to all Asian made stuff?

  I am asking since using "standard" stuff doesn't seem to make any difference to the perception on parts that we use in the amps.

  "Standard" here defined as what the other booteeks use.

  I see on the other forums how we use Asian made parts of low quality. The very same people talk in great detail on quality.

  Yet, it seems a bit off to me, when they cannot tell or identify Mallory 150 from an Orange Drop, or even know that there are many types of Orange Drop caps.

  And lets not even get into RN65D resistors, or the likes.

  I mean, if you want to say I use low quality stuff, you gotta know what I actually use, right?

  I guess, if this is how it's going, I might just save the money and reduce the prices more, by just using "Asian" parts. Using quality parts do not count, if you're not there.
 
  Sorry for the rant, but I guess snake oil is here to stay. And, no, dont get my faceplates, it'd make your amp sound bad. Really! The cheap faceplate wont jive with your ultra shiny, correct to July 1967 tranny mounting screw.

  I will no longer discuss what parts I use inside the amp. I will just say they're made from processed coconut husk.

  Look at the pics, google to find out more and make comparison, and listen to clips to decide.

  We send out 200 amps per month - 1 fail, thats 0.5% failure.

  Compare to sending out 20, and 1 fail - thats 5% failure.

  I will now shut up and spend time for new amps, and still low(and hopefully lower) costs. Just because I can, and just to piss them off. I am not responsible if that means people can now afford these stuff.

Thank You.

Nik



 

   

 
 


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: tele caster on June 02, 2010, 06:40:45 PM
Don't listen to them Nik, keep building your amps with quality components as always. Most of these people are nothing more than gearpage consumers who think that paying $300 for a tubescreamer clone is a great deal, what do they know?
Misinformation in the name of the game in this global internet economy. Your reputation speaks for itself. Keep up the good work.


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: 72sg on June 02, 2010, 06:45:23 PM
I'd say your vent is well placed. I can't know specifically what forum/thread/post you're reacting to. I've seen the occasional -- always unsubstantiated and vague -- reference to Ceriatone parts, mostly on transformers. But I also read where guys come to your defense, like I recently saw a guy point out your use of Mallorys. And your build quality always gets very high marks. Folks are always going to want to see something like MM/Heyboer/Drake/RadioSpares/Hammond/etc specified just so they can feel good. I also recently read a Metro post where a guy said your trannys were just fine, and told the OP that upgrading his tranny was just a waste of money. A lot of this stuff is just people playing favorites and, frankly the "buy American" mindset comes into play too. I think the best way to dispel the rumor mill is simply respond, politely but aggressively, on the boards. Push back!

As for downgrading your parts, I say HELL NO! Maybe just do a better job of communicating how high the quality of your parts is? Again, if it's really a problem, push back! You have every right, especially if your stuff is being falsely impugned. I suspect that right away if folks see that their unsubstantiated BS might be challenged they'll fold like a cheap lawn chair.

Personally I'd be willing to pay more for genuine coconut husk! :chairdance:

Aside: You should get your hands on a Swart AST. That thing is something special.


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: Aesg81 on June 03, 2010, 12:01:16 AM
Hello Nik,

      I have been blown away from the very beginning at the quality and service that you provide to us. Please stay the course with what your doing and to hell with what the snake oil drinking tone snobs say. I work for a vintage music store and tell everyone one who cares about tone about your company. I have heard all the holy grail amps, and what you offer is right up there without having to spend a thousand dollars just to overhaul a vintage amp.

      If I want to spend more to buy expensive trannies that is the extent of what I would do personally. I have blown people away with the stock amp kits you have sold me. I know what I'm getting when I buy from you and I cant wait to buy more.

     Please keep doing what your doing. 


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: mcinku on June 03, 2010, 01:55:11 AM
People who buy your stuff know what they are getting... and people ranting about it, are not your customers.

Ask your self, do you get more orders or less orders... if you're getting more (which is my guess), than your know what is the general feeling about your amps. Don't go and spoil that.

If you're doing something wrong is MARKETING... man, you suck at that.
First of all, you need to redo your web site... put shitload more info about your amps in there. Be more involved in a forum like this one... perhaps even take an occasional stand in some hostile territories  ;).

...but be ready to react... more orders will come and you better deliver them all.
 ;D


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: eri77 on June 05, 2010, 04:43:20 AM
Some people are just plain ignorant and well bigoted, the people who can see through that are the ones to worry about, I see similarities with what happened to the British motorcycle companies in the 60's, there products where shown to be over priced and well the quality could be questionable at times, along comes the Japanese and well the rest is history...


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: Tone Control on June 06, 2010, 03:18:47 PM
There are always people who will get bitchy, especially if they regard the price they paid for something built in the US as a badge showing how serious they are about music. AFAIK no-one has a better reputation than Nik.

Nik, Just keep doing it the way you know is the correct way....
I couldn't find any genuine-sounding negative reviews anywhere

Cheers
T


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: dt125 on June 06, 2010, 05:48:02 PM
Ha!
I get wound up by the crap i read on some forums about how Ceriatone amps cant possibly be any good cos you dont have to sell all your kidneys to be able to afford one!

Ceriatone amps work VERY well and the customer support is light years ahead of any other company i've dealt with anywhere, im not even sure Nik can be human, he certainly doesnt sleep. What happens if you email any other amp company??? Ive rarely even had a response when ive tried to contact them, which is why the only amps i will ever use now are Ceriatones.
Anyone who knows about electronics will know that the parts are quality - Ive put hundreds of hours of playing through some of my amps and loaned them to pro musicians and ive never had a problem, also i like being able to change a cap or resistor here and there and see what happens without knocking a shed load off the value

Bottom line is, anyone who thinks Niks amps are no good is - WRONG and MISSING THE POINT!
If you cant get them to sound good then YOU'RE the problem!    Nik - Thanks!


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: baldy on June 06, 2010, 11:06:47 PM
Nik keep building your amps the way you feel best about them and screw the other crap!! I'm getting one of your amps because of the reviews I've read , the sound clips I listened to and the fact that the price can't be beat!! ;D


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: boogieguy on June 07, 2010, 12:59:13 AM
Hey Nik,

    I have built 2 of your kits and they amaze people that have heard or played through them. I am a Quality Assurance/Quality Control manager and give you
very high marks on overall quality, customer feedback, customer support, and shipping. These are the most important elements of a sucessful company or business.
   
Your boards and soldering speak for themselves. There will always people who will complain hoping to get some something for less money. They are just a very small minority. Let someone else with a lower quality plan supply them with what they want. Right now your customers are standing behind you and that means a lot. You rank with the best and are trying to continously improve your products. You can't do better than that!!

Stick to your plan and continue to meet or exceed your customers expectations.



Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: alwalt on June 09, 2010, 07:39:04 PM
wow... Come on Nik, when I bought my amp, there was a discrete general knowledge on Ceriatone... I did my research first and found some great comments. That was late 2006! Google Ceriatone now and tell me how many good reffrences can you find!

There is only one specific reason why I have not bought another amp from you, and that is money $$  ;D

But believe, I won't buy no amps from other place than yours. I have seen people ignoring my advice, and regreting it later.

There is no need on changing what you use right now on your amps. If you are using this parts it's because you already researched and decided this is what is needed. Why change?
A forum board can take as much as people can write. Do this guys know the difference between brands because they all have ears like Eric Jhonson? or because they know stuff just like you do? or just because they read somewere else? I can assure you that 95% of this "gurus" spend more time in front of a computer than playing guitar. Why should we care!

The marketing stuff... well something can be done on that part, but it is not an urgency. If the world stop asking for your amps, worry. Otherwise, keep sending amps, that's the relevant part!

Kind regards from Walter, here from Costa Rica!


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: frankandstephen on June 09, 2010, 10:33:45 PM
Nik,

For all of those out there speaking critically just ignore them....what you have is a very dedicated group of buyers/fans who definitely realize the value of what you're producing and the incredible customer service you're providing. No need for you to defend yourself; hell, we know what we have and we're definitely appreciative of all that you do!

I bought your amp for you my son after extensive research and after the recommendations of a local amp builder with over 30 years of experience who told us that in all his years of building/working on amps he'd never seen such "beautiful" (his exact word) craftmanship (wiring).

Best part of the entire experience is having Stephen play his amp live and people come up to him asking him "what kind of amp is that?"  ;D

Keep up the great work!



Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: cyndicate on June 10, 2010, 01:51:45 PM
Big +1 to this. I am not sure if Nik is human either! I had some problems and stupid questions and Nik always took the time to help me troubleshoot. Very knowledgable and the support is just him alone which is unbelievable, I don't know how he does it! There is just something satisfying about being able to build your own kit at a VERY reasonable price, prices for a bare kit are just unbelievable and I am working on Kit #2 now. I used to be skeptical about buying a Ceriatone, and after building a amp I decided to take the plunge and build a Ceriatone 100w HRM BM, very glad I decided to, this thing sounds just like boutique built d-style amps that cost 2 to 3x as much that I previously had. 

Keep it up Nik, with more releases you will always have supporters.

Ha!
I get wound up by the crap i read on some forums about how Ceriatone amps cant possibly be any good cos you dont have to sell all your kidneys to be able to afford one!

Ceriatone amps work VERY well and the customer support is light years ahead of any other company i've dealt with anywhere, im not even sure Nik can be human, he certainly doesnt sleep. What happens if you email any other amp company??? Ive rarely even had a response when ive tried to contact them, which is why the only amps i will ever use now are Ceriatones.
Anyone who knows about electronics will know that the parts are quality - Ive put hundreds of hours of playing through some of my amps and loaned them to pro musicians and ive never had a problem, also i like being able to change a cap or resistor here and there and see what happens without knocking a shed load off the value

Bottom line is, anyone who thinks Niks amps are no good is - WRONG and MISSING THE POINT!
If you cant get them to sound good then YOU'RE the problem!    Nik - Thanks!


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: hywelg on June 11, 2010, 03:50:56 AM
Nik, the comments you might have read on other forums about the parts you use are very likely put there by builders or their friends who are very envious of your reputation and are losing business to you. They now seek to tarnish your record by sowing doubt in potential buyers minds.

You should be pleased, no really, you have made them resort to underhand tactics and they will fail. BUT if you do change your parts to lower 'quality' cheaper versions and it gets out, then you will suffer. At the moment we all know these comments are unfounded and will defend you when we see them, please don't change your build philosophy.



Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: petesguitar1 on June 22, 2010, 02:52:09 AM
Just another vote of support for you Nik - your amps are fantastic and you are an incredible dude.

Thanks heaps mate (don't let the man get you down!)


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: erwin_ve on June 22, 2010, 07:09:06 AM
Hi Nik,

The parts on your OTS kit are overall good.

However you should take a look at your electrolytics. They were all off spec in my OTS. F.e; One 4,7uF electrolytic holy grail cap was measured 2,8 uF! For a cathode bypass cap that's very bad.

The OT in my OTS(may2008) was dark sounding. A MM was much better, however: I did some mods on several Ceriatone OTS  and noticed that later production OTS have other OT's?  The Ot's for the OTS from summer 2008 till now are good sounding OT's they can hold up easily with the MM's.

One other thing to mention for building the OTS: keep the grid, cathode and plate wires away from the heater wires. It kills tone. I mentioned it before but modding several OTS I keep seeing this wrong wiring.


Hope this helps,

Greetz Erwin


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: riverman on June 22, 2010, 01:53:19 PM
Hi Erwin_ve,

did you source your mm transformers in europe, and did they make much of a difference ?. Any feedback appreciated.

riverman.


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: erwin_ve on June 22, 2010, 05:07:02 PM
Hi Erwin_ve,

did you source your mm transformers in europe, and did they make much of a difference ?. Any feedback appreciated.

riverman.

Hi Riverman; If your amp is after summer 2008 I won't bother. If it's before check: http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=981.0 (http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=981.0)


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: Nairbr on June 27, 2010, 09:07:17 PM
Hi Nik
The negative comments on other forums of the quality of your components that you use, are totally unfounded.

It is either driven by jelousness and / or pure snobbery or by your competition.

Everyone that has had a go on my HRM was blown away on how good it sounds

Keep up the great work you have my future business. I can feel some GAS coming on. ;D


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: tubeholic on June 28, 2010, 12:15:52 PM
Hey Nik.

I'm new to the forum, but have known and been using your amps for a while. For the record, your amps are incredible, a true joy to play, and stand loud and proud among most "boutique" amps I've heard. I know a good guitar tone when I hear it, and man, your 18Watters, JTM45 amps and specially the Overtones are lovely. The Overtone Special, damn, that one is good. Chimey clean tone, all the way to touch sensitive, smooth singing overdrive... Paired with the right speaker (loving the Delta Pro12a, BTW), this amps deliver the most inspiring, luscious tone ever.

So, never mind snobery coated, moronic comments like that. I know who'll be getting my money when I buy my next amp...


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: Ben on June 28, 2010, 12:43:11 PM
Hi there !

I'm new lucky owner of an OTS 50w and a new poster on this site.
This type of amp is really new, amazing to me (I never could afford before) and I'm re-discovering my guitar. Ideas to write songs come to me at night. Not easy to handle but so interesting to investigate. It's like a banana with 25.352.456 ends. Don't know which to take in hand or which to eat first ! I don't worry, the only thing is to play, play, and play and plea...sure !

Thanks again, Nick and all of your team around. Keep your faith in your job, no one can waste that.
Regards,
Bernard (from France)


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: sharp__edge on June 28, 2010, 11:21:44 PM
Those guys are just a bunch of booteek snobs that spend more time rubbing their Mecury Magnetic transformers against their scrotums, than actually playing music.

if asian made parts sound the same as "standard" parts, then use Asian-made parts. at the end of it all, we appreciate music with our ears, not our eyes.

just remember that Ceriatone has a strong reputation that is not going to be easily destroyed by a bunch of losers. Brand image? Just let your products speak for themselves.


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: ampkits on July 01, 2010, 12:20:41 PM
Wow, I forgot to check this!

I blame it on the weed for the rant! Sorry guys!

Anyways, thanks for the kind support, much appreciated.

OK, we will go on mode for more information on stuff we use!

Most of the passives come from USA anyways, so... the difference is, we just buy a shitload of em in one shot. Like enough for a full year or two each time.

Abt the lytics, I will check. Are you sure it's not 2.2uf instead of 4.7uf for printed value? The amp uses both.  These come from a co. here in a state where Intel and AMD have facilities and they supply. 105 degree (long life) rated, should be no issue.

105 degree does mean different electrolytes. Higher cost I suppose but nobody's boiling caps no more I guess, so the benefit isnt that noticeable :)

As for trannies - do burn in. Malaysia, and the region, is sort of on upswing from the economic downturn.

What that means is, demand is high for lams. It used to be, the lams we used were actually 1-2 years old. Now, sometimes the lams are hot from stamping, ie real fresh, when we make the trannies.

Might be voodoo here, but there's some difference for sure. After some time, it'd settle down.

Same make, Japanese Z11 lams from Tamura. Same wire supply from Sumitomo.

Anyways, it'd be a long night if need to write everything down.

I guess writeups are the way to go, and you all know how keen I am on those! :)

Thanks!

Nik







Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: JohnA on August 23, 2010, 05:42:32 PM
I recently built an 18W version of a JTM45 using one of Niks boards, loved the amp so much I built another using Sozo vintage, F&T, NOS Carbon comps (checked for value) and just about every other expensive component I could find!!  They do sound a bit different to each other but overall I like the one using Niks board better!!



Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: Kitarist on August 24, 2010, 03:53:46 AM
Nik has top notch stuff. The amps do sound a little bit different than a "real" vintage ones. They are little bit more detailed, hairy ,brighter and in your face face sounding, but they do sound amazing. Compare any Ceriatone amp to a new amp in a store for that kind of price. New amp just plain suck imho they lack character and sound cold. If you really want a "vintage" tone just replace trannies and caps and you are there. But i would replace caps first and i'm sure it would be enough :). I also noticed that newer Ceriatone sound even better than earlier ones. Not sure why but oh well... :)

Also even if you dont like the sound of the amp so much you can always tweak it. Sometimes you have to change some values to make the amp from sounding good to great.So all the components and tansformers talk to each other as they should. Dont buy trannies because you will think it will sound better  just play with the values first because no amp is the same!!! Just get those components and trannies talking and you are set. If you have a good ear you can do it!!!

So anyway NIK has some great stuff!!!


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: shumwayji on April 01, 2011, 04:35:50 AM
keep doing what you do so well Nik - building great amps that are affordable - and improving and creating new models

As Duane Allman said " Music is supposed to be fun" - word up !!  and game over :)

keep on shining nik :)


Title: Re: Downgrade all parts to Asian made (aka are people really that blind?)
Post by: misterjim on January 23, 2013, 09:49:39 AM
Nik,
I can't speak for anyone but myself. You have built me about 6 amps to date. Some I have sold simply because of the fact that I can't afford a multi-amp collection  :'( But I have never had an issue with your build quality! I have always highly recommended your amps to friends and nothing gets better advertising than people hearing your amps. I gig with them regularly and depend on them and they never let me down! There will always be a handful of naysayers putting you down for whatever reason. I say @#$% 'em! Just keep doing what you do!

Actually it will be 7 amps as Nik is building me a 1986 bass! Woo-hoo!  ;D