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Author Topic: 5X3 tube questions  (Read 14507 times)
fuzzy
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« on: January 03, 2010, 03:00:22 PM »
hello there,

my 5x3 arrived preassembled and it sounds great. i have some questions regarding the tubes, as it's all just alphabet soup to me:


1) the amp's tube chart says GZ34 as rectifier, but the amp came with a 5Y3.
- what's the difference in characteristics, if any? which one would you prefer?

2) if i understand correctly, 5V4GA, GZ34 and 5Y3 can be used as rectifier tubes,
- can you tell me what tube will give which result?

3) it's safe to use any of these 3 tubes as the amp is self biased,
- is that correct? i play cranked all the time and i don't want to fry the amp.


answers highly appreciated,

cheers!
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Doc Murray
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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2010, 10:38:46 PM »
the GZ34 will has more output voltage than a 5Y3, you have 6L6s so they can handle the increase.
Strange that they put in a 5Y3. I would get a GZ34 and see how you like it I think it will sag less some folks
like that and some don't
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wyatt
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2010, 04:17:34 AM »
If it's a modern 5Y3 like a Sovtek, then it's pretty much a GZ34 anyway. 

There isn't a real correct voltage drop, modern,. aftermarket a5Y3 on the market at all.  They are all just relabeled GZ34's.  You have to go NOS for a real 5Y3.

The least voltage drop is the GZ34, then 5V4 then 5Y3.  The more votlage drop, the lower the B+ voltage and the softer the sound and lower the output.  In a push-pull Class AB amp like a 5E3/5Y3, there will be more sag with a 5Y3 then a 5V4 which, in turn will have more sag than a GZ34. 

There is a nearly 40VDC difference in B+ voltage between a G34 and a real 5Y3, that can change the cathode-biasing range.  For instance, if you use a real GZ34 or modern 5Y3 in a 5E3 with real 6V6GT tubes, the tubes will run way too hot.  Generally, in a 5E3 you would run a 5Y3 or 5V4 with 6V6's and a GZ34 or SS rectifier with 6l6's to keep the cathode bias in range.  I have no idea on the 5X3 because it uses a lot higher B+ volts stock than a 5E3.
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Doc Murray
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2010, 04:43:24 AM »
my 5E3 is running a Sovek 5Y3 and the amp gets real hot  needs a NOS perhaps
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wyatt
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2010, 07:54:45 AM »
Quote from: Doc Murray on January 04, 2010, 04:43:24 AM
my 5E3 is running a Sovek 5Y3 and the amp gets real hot  needs a NOS perhaps

A lot of the DIY'ers out there that built 5E3's and tried Sovtek 5Y3's with stock cathode bias resistor and cap values have measured their tubes were running well over 100% dissipation; way, way too hot.

Fender actual has tubes made for their '57 Deluxe by Shuguang, but they aren't sold aftermarket.

One good NOS 5Y3 could last a non-gigger a lifetime. 
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 07:56:34 AM by wyatt » Logged
fuzzy
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« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2010, 03:42:00 PM »
thanks for the input, folks! i appreciate!  Wink

____

the amp came shipped with an NOS Zaerix 5Y3, so i if i understand correctly, this tube is safe to use and i can replace it with a 5V4, which will not put as much strain on the amp as a GZ 34 (which, in turn, is actually in the amp's tube chart).

since the GZ34 is in the tube chart, i should not run into problems if i actually popped one in, right?

which leads to the next question:
____

the chart says 2x 6L6GC, but the amp came with E/H 6V6GTs.

aren't 6V6GTs lower power than the GC type? i don't get it.

____

since it came configured with NOS 5Y3 and 6V6 GT, i assume it's safe to use as is, even though the tube chart asks for GZ34 and 6L6GC?

if i want to put in a 5V4 or even a GZ34, i should also swap the 6V6GTs to 6L6GC, just as the tube chart says, no?

_____

i just looked at the 5e3 vs. the 5x3 layout, and the tubes the amp came shipped with are for the 5e3, not the 5x3. could it be i don't even have a 5x3 here? 

 Huh?

_____

and please excuse my crude english, i'm not a native speaker and my technical knowledge is close to zero.
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wyatt
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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2010, 08:42:59 AM »
Quote from: fuzzy on January 04, 2010, 03:42:00 PM


i just looked at the 5e3 vs. the 5x3 layout, and the tubes the amp came shipped with are for the 5e3, not the 5x3. could it be i don't even have a 5x3 here? 

 Huh?

That's what I was wondering when I read your post.

Another possibility is that someone down the line at Ceriatone got mixed up and used the wrong tubes.

Looks like you can peak (don't poke) in the chassis.  If the printing on the power transformer says 340 in two spots, it's a 5X3, if it says 325 in two spots, then it's a 5E3. 

There is also a different layout to the power transformer and two component changes (plus probably a output transformer change), otherwise they are pretty hard to tell apart. 
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fuzzy
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« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2010, 01:31:22 PM »
Quote from: wyatt on January 05, 2010, 08:42:59 AM

Looks like you can peak (don't poke) in the chassis. 


That much i know  Grin



yeah it seems like someone mixed up the tubes only. phew.
if only i knew a bit more about tubes i would have noticed earlier.  Tongue


one transformer says 5e7, which is the big one,  Smiley
and thanks for the PT info (340) > i'll check tonight.

 Wink
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wyatt
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« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2010, 06:24:20 PM »
Quote from: fuzzy on January 05, 2010, 01:31:22 PM
Quote from: wyatt on January 05, 2010, 08:42:59 AM

Looks like you can peak (don't poke) in the chassis. 


That much i know  Grin



yeah it seems like someone mixed up the tubes only. phew.
if only i knew a bit more about tubes i would have noticed earlier.  Tongue


one transformer says 5e7, which is the big one,  Smiley
and thanks for the PT info (340) > i'll check tonight.

 Wink

That's the correct one for the 5X3.

I would ask Nik about the tube mix up. 
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fuzzy
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2010, 05:12:09 PM »
hmm.. i can't find any letters on the PT.

but on the chassis it says "5X3" in hanwriting, so i assume it was just the tubes.

Got back to Nik and he will send me a set of correct tubes - great service!

And i was already wondering why it wasn't a tad louder when i tried it out, ha ha!
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wyatt
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2010, 11:59:23 PM »
Quote from: fuzzy on January 06, 2010, 05:12:09 PM
hmm.. i can't find any letters on the PT.

but on the chassis it says "5X3" in hanwriting, so i assume it was just the tubes.

Got back to Nik and he will send me a set of correct tubes - great service!

And i was already wondering why it wasn't a tad louder when i tried it out, ha ha!


The PT is the larger transformer.  If it says 5E7, it's correct for a 5X3.
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fuzzy
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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2010, 03:04:00 PM »
Alrighty!!



Nik's sending me the correct tubes ! Super!

 Smiley
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fuzzy
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« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2010, 12:12:00 PM »
the correct tubes are here and it sounds fantastic. 

Cry < tears of joy.

i'll post a linky in the sound clips section.
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