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| | |-+  20W Lead & Bass advice for mods etc		 « previous next »
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Author Topic: 20W Lead & Bass advice for mods etc  (Read 17191 times)
Frankajoerg
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« on: February 27, 2012, 04:19:21 PM »
hi guys!

im sooo close to place an order for the Ceriatone 20w Lead & Bass for my quest after that fat Thin Lizzy solo tone:)

anyone here who owns one who could share their experiences with it?

Also, what mods do you think I should go for?
FX Loop
Mastervolume
1/2 Powerswitch
Tad Mustard caps

any thing else I should put in there? and is it a bit too much to have both the 1/2 powerswitch AND a Mastervolume on it?

Im gonna use it for full band practise and smaller gigs (50-100) people.

thanks for any tips and experiences shared!
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wyatt
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« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2012, 06:16:34 PM »
When dealing with dual power tube push-pull amps, most 1/2 power switches are Triode/Pentode switches, so "1/2 power" gets very mushy and undefined. Some people don't mind, even find it gives a little more of a old '50's feel; others (including myself) are not a fan.

For me it would be a toss up between some sort of master volume or power scaling/VVR setup (which decreases volume by decreasing plate voltages). But ultimately, any effort to reduce power requires a compromise in tone, great for when you need to practice at home, but not something you would want to have to use a majority of the time.  Just note the the 2061x, like it's JMP big brothers, has a relatively low-gain preamp, and offers good headroom, it really needs to be cranked to power tube overdrive for that classic Marshall tone. 

Also, since it does not have a hi-gain preamp, I think the FX loop is probably overkill.
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cmoore
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« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2012, 06:37:27 PM »
Per usual, Wyatt has covered the bases quite well.
Yeah.....not sure you would really need/benefit with a Fx Loop on this amp. Not sure you would want "half-power" on this amp either.
And, as mentioned above, I have never heard that mode that sounded good to me. I think it is better achieved with less/different speakers, Master Volume, Attenuator, or just having a few different amps to operate in the power band(s) that you need.
Not much help, I know.
Best
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Frankajoerg
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« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2012, 07:37:59 PM »
Thanks guys, big help actually!

I don't think the 1/2 power switch will be of interest then.

Are there several kinds of mastervolume mods they can do or just one?
If several, what is the best one?

The amp will definitely not be used at home, only band practice and smaller gigs so if anything, maybe a mastervolume (but do i really need it...?), the bias mod and tad mustard caps will be all I need of mods..

I also have a Ibanez  hand wired ts808 and a blackstone appliances MOSFET overdrive.

Hope they will help me get that thin lizzy sound if the amp alone won't give me it by itself.
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wyatt
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« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2012, 07:51:44 PM »
The attenuator idea is also an excellent (and portable) idea.
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Frankajoerg
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« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2012, 08:02:33 PM »
I have no experience with those, I've read that some say it takes away some of the original sound etc, but I haven't tried any myself.

Is there any that is better then others and especially for the 20w lead&bass?

But if I choose the MV I can bypass it somehow anyway right? Guess I just have to crank the volume  to 10:)
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wyatt
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« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2012, 08:10:36 PM »
Quote from: Frankajoerg on February 27, 2012, 08:02:33 PM
I have no experience with those, I've read that some say it takes away some of the original sound etc, but I haven't tried any myself.

Is there any that is better then others and especially for the 20w lead&bass?

But if I choose the MV I can bypass it somehow anyway right? Guess I just have to crank the volume  to 10:)

No. Every method of "turning down" an amp has it's supporters and detractors. And everyone is right. Every method is both great and crappy.

Master volume, power scaling, and attenuators all have an impact on tone.  It's the compromise you make for lower volume. The key is, they all sound good if only shaving off a little volume at gigs...the more you turn down, the more they have a detrimental effect on tone. So, if you need bedroom volume, you have compromise a lot of tone.

The nice thing about small amps, is they usually only need a little help fro whatever method you pick.

The benefit of an attenuator is it allows you to turn up the amp and crank the power tubes, at full plate voltage, and then wick away some wattage before it reaches the speaker. I keep a Alessandro Muzzle and Dr. Z Air Brake around to use with various amps, I like both and both were a bargain used.

Power scaling allows you to crank the power tubes, but at reduced plate voltage, which lowers headroom and output.

Master volume allows you to crank the preamp tubes (and PI in a post-PI MV) and then choke off the signal before it reaches the power tubes. There probably is an ideal MV for a 2061x, but I haven't done any research it no it.

The more you turn any of them down, the more you notice the character of the amp changing.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 08:20:49 PM by wyatt » Logged
Frankajoerg
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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2012, 08:20:46 PM »
Thanks for all the info!

I will never use it at home, only at band practice and smaller gigs.

Nik suggested the PPIMV mod and tad mustard caps as the only mods on this amp.
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Jack Daniels
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« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2012, 01:20:12 AM »
Quote from: Frankajoerg on February 27, 2012, 08:20:46 PM
Thanks for all the info!

I will never use it at home, only at band practice and smaller gigs.

Nik suggested the PPIMV mod and tad mustard caps as the only mods on this amp.

I have an actual Marshall 2061X head and Marshall 2061CX cabinet.  Never use it at home? What's that all about? Why not?  The LAR/MAR PPIMV upgrade mod is what I would use and if you want to take it out of the circuit altogether then just crank it to max and use your regular volume as usual.  The caps I'd suggest using would be original mustard caps that you'd have to source yourself OR I'd use Sozo capacitors AND upgraded trannys preferably Mercury Magnetics Radiospares or Partridge clone trannys.  Graydon Stuckey at GDS Amplifiers supposedly makes a hellacious OT and PT set made just like the (Radiospare or Partrige) transformers as used by Marshall in their 18 and 20 watt amps, and probably much cheaper than the MM transformers.  Half power or a percentage of full power should be designed into the power tranny similar to what Mesa Boogie did with their Mark I amps to simulate the brown sound, but this idea is better conceived and suited to higher wattage amps.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 01:25:17 AM by Jack Daniels » Logged
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