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| | |-+  I need help deciding... too! TMB, TMB + ef86, Lead/Bass
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Author Topic: I need help deciding... too! TMB, TMB + ef86, Lead/Bass  (Read 11350 times)
Gasp100
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« on: February 23, 2009, 07:42:12 PM »

I'm convinced that it's time to give Ceriatone a shot (lord knows I've tried about everything else out at this point). I am a home studio player (young kids, you know the deal) and volume is definitely an issue (always). I have an AxeFX which is great and filled with options, but I feel like I need something sweet and simple (but versatile) with KNOBS to keep me grounded. I love cleans, edge of breakup and some grind (sometimes). Definitely more old school overdrive and gain. I also love to just plug in (no pedals) but I'm not adverse to a clean boost or something to kick it up a notch. I don't think an FX loop would be necessary in this rig. I have an Avatar 2x12 with CL80 & Hellatone60 <V30 broken in clone>.
I want great Marshall tones and NOTHING compares to a good, voxy ef86. So, of course the TMB + ef86 18 watter sounds appealing. But, I think trying to kill two birds with one stone might be pushing it.
The 20 watt lead/bass seems very interesting as well. But in both circumstances, how are the cleans/edge of breakup? I play a Tele, modded Tele with Fralin P92's (awesome!) and Epi Elitists (MIJ).
My main point is I need simplicity, many nice tones by just turning dials, jumping channels, and VOLUME control is VIP!!! What is the Klein-ulator btw??? Also, how big is the footprint on the Ceritatone cabs? Full sized marshall headbox (too big) or a bit smaller (12-18" or so?). Sorry for all of the questions, I'm not adverse to nailing the Marshall-esque tones first - then saving up and coming back for more with a pure Vox style. Feel free to PM or email me: greg@gregamann.com
Thanks!
 
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Alpedra
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« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2009, 10:44:09 AM »

I have a 36W TMB + ef86 with a half power switch. I love it.. very marshally on the TMB channel and jangly/voxy on the ef86.. but it´s not the kind of amp I would go if I want cleans. It breakups a bit early and it´s "magic" comes alive with a bit of volume and grind.... great great amp for classic 60s/70s rock, "british invasion" sounds and "hard" blues...

Don´t know about Ceriatone cabs for the 18 or 36 watters, but I think it would be around the same size of a JTM45 headbox.

As for the Kleinulator, there´s lots of info about it @ the Overtone forum. Wink

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Overtone + 36W ef86 TMB = Tone Heaven
calis
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2009, 11:09:52 PM »

I have a Ceriatone 36-watt TMB and am building a Weber 18-watt TMB as well (basically the same thing but lower wattage so that I can use fewer speakers for reduced volume). Both amps are based on the Marshall 18-watt amp but with the Tremolo circuit removed and the TMB added in its place.

One thing to keep in mind here... If you want authentic Marshall tone, you may be considering the wrong amp...

The amps that most people associate with the Marshall name are the JTM45 and the Plexi. It is commonly known that the JTM45 is basically a modified version of the Fender 5F6A (Tweed Bassman circuit) and the Plexi is evolved from the JTM45.

The 18-watt Marshall, on the other hand, is commonly thought to have been derived from the Watkins Dominator.

There are some big tone differences, and, if I were to sum them up in short, I would say that the 18-watt Marshall is really more VOX and less Marshall if that makes sense. It's a great design! I love it! But you aren't getting Plexi tone in an 18-watt package really. You are gonna get tones that really are closer to the Vox stuff.

If you are looking for what most people consider the Marshall sound, you may want to consider the JTM45 or Plexi clones. If you are looking for Vox tone that has been "Marshallized", then you may want to consider the 18-watt variants.

That's my $0.02.

Justin

PS - You mentioned you dig clean tones. Because it was practically lifted out of the 5F6A, the JTM45 clean is closer to a Fender clean and is generally thought to have the best clean tones of any Marshall ever made. Something else to consider.
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wyatt
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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2009, 09:14:55 PM »

I have a Ceriatone 36-watt TMB and am building a Weber 18-watt TMB as well (basically the same thing but lower wattage so that I can use fewer speakers for reduced volume). Both amps are based on the Marshall 18-watt amp but with the Tremolo circuit removed and the TMB added in its place.

One thing to keep in mind here... If you want authentic Marshall tone, you may be considering the wrong amp...

The amps that most people associate with the Marshall name are the JTM45 and the Plexi. It is commonly known that the JTM45 is basically a modified version of the Fender 5F6A (Tweed Bassman circuit) and the Plexi is evolved from the JTM45.

The 18-watt Marshall, on the other hand, is commonly thought to have been derived from the Watkins Dominator.

There are some big tone differences, and, if I were to sum them up in short, I would say that the 18-watt Marshall is really more VOX and less Marshall if that makes sense. It's a great design! I love it! But you aren't getting Plexi tone in an 18-watt package really. You are gonna get tones that really are closer to the Vox stuff.

A few things for people who may be lurking to figure out what they want (I actually already highlight this for gasp100 over on the gear page a while back).  The TMB 18-watt isn't a historic amp design, it's a very recent modern derivative from the boys over at 18watt.com.  The original tremolo-equipped 18-watter is very much a Watkins clone, it offers a lot of great chime-y clean and grinds well, but is very different than the bigger Marshalls.  IMHO, it's an incredibly responsive, amp that offers a lot of great clarity and definition within a nice middy clean tone, and then some nice hotter tones; perhaps one of the best lo-gain "one trick" amps out there, easily on par with a Tweed Deluxe or Matchless Lightning.  Personally, I think the original is the best, the derivatives are all trying to make the amp somethingit is not (the amp is not a low-output Plexi) and make compromises in return. 

The TMB, on the other hand, takes a Plexi-style tone stack and drops in in place of the tremolo channel (but keeps the regular channel).   You forfeit the better clean channel for a much more rock-oriented, more Marshall-oriented channel.  The TMB tone stack really gives it that JTM-45 feel (it lacks the fast attack of a Plexi) at a smaller output level (power tubes have a much less significant role in voicing an amp compared to the tone stack). 

PS - You mentioned you dig clean tones. Because it was practically lifted out of the 5F6A, the JTM45 clean is closer to a Fender clean and is generally thought to have the best clean tones of any Marshall ever made. Something else to consider.

The JTM-45 is considered to have a lower gain preamp with a bluesy, sag on the attack of the note due to it's tube rectifier (the original offset JTM-45 sounds nearly identical to a '59 Bassman, the later JTM's we usually see cloned are more aggressive)  "best clean tones of a Marshall" is purely subjective.  I'll take the faster, jazzier clean tones available on a Plexi (preferably '67) over a JTM-45 anyday, and that fact that the JTM is really only 35-watts or so RMS means that I can get noticeably more clean headroom out of a 50- or 100-watt Plexi over a JTM-45.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 09:17:53 PM by wyatt » Logged
yumchild
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2010, 08:36:12 PM »

I've got similar questions.  I currently use a JCM800 4010 (non-reverb, non switching) 1x12 combo running 6550's.  I plug my medium - low gain pickup tele or guild into the HI input.  I don't get quite enough gain with the low input on max, but the HI input gives me really more than enough at the lowest useable setting (1 or 2).  Thats where I run it all the time.  This gives me beautiful  yet aggressive clean tones with very little distortion at full volume on the guitar.

I'm really pretty happy with this sound but I want to use a more 'authentic' 60's amp for my 60's retro band.  (Think early Who, Beatles, Kinks) Plus I want to get my hands dirty building a kit.

Any suggestions?
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yumchild
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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2010, 12:51:04 AM »

What it comes down to for me is this - Can I get enough clean headroom with the 36W EF86? 

I think the tones described for this one must be very close to what I'm shooting for, but I'm concerned I wont be able to keep up with my drummer without getting into quite a bit of saturation.  I can definitely get the headroom I need with my JCM800.  I also have a (2xEL84 15 watt) Fender Pro Jr. which saturates a bit too early but not much - just to give you an idea.
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