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Author Topic: 'Finished' Stray Cat 30 build, need to start troubleshooting  (Read 6334 times)
prontold
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« on: July 05, 2013, 01:57:29 AM »

Hey everybody. I recently purchased a Stray Cat 30 kit from ceriatone.net (American distributor, right?) and spent about 40 hours over the past week building it. This was my first amp build so it was a long process and maybe not the best build ever done... Anyway, finally finished the wiring about an hour ago, stuck in some tubes, plugged in to a cab and started to check to see if everything would work. First, the indicator light comes on. Heart starts pounding. 'That's a good sign!'. However, as I'm moving to plug in a guitar and then flip the standby switch, the rectifier tube starts to glow, a crackling sound starts coming out of the speakers, and about 10 seconds later the main fuse blows. I was wondering if anybody here could give any thoughts on where to start looking for trouble, based on that sequence of events...

   Thanks!
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prontold
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« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2013, 07:32:39 PM »

An update: Got a bunch more fuses from Home Depot. Tried only the rectifier and the power tubes. There is arcing inside the rectifier tube (which I know to work fine in an Orange AD15) for a minute or so before the fuse blows. Clearly there is something wrong with the tube rectifier wiring...

Switching to solid state rectifier, the fuse does not blow. However, the amp produces a loud hum regardless of the positions of the controls and the channel plugged into. The hum is louder and bassier on the hi power setting. Must be a grounding issue somewhere...?

I'll be struggling to sort out these issues, so if anybody more experienced has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them!

Oh, one question... Are the control pots supposed to be grounded to the chassis?
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wyatt
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« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2013, 10:07:42 PM »

Well first of all, you are risking the whole amp every time you turn it on. If there is an issue, every time you pop a new fuse in and turn it back on, you are risking worst damage. Swapping out to a SS recitifer when you KNEW there was an issue with the tube rectifier was even worse.

Build a current limiter (plans are all over) which uses a light bulb. It will restrict current sparing the amp from any reissues that are happening before your fuse blows (it will also save you to cost of more fuses).

First power up with with NO tubes through the current limiter. If there is a problem DO NOT PROCEED to the next step! Start troubleshooting.

Second power up is with the rectifier tube through the current limiter. If there is a problem DO NOT PROCEED to the next step! Start troubleshooting.

Next step is insert the rest the tubes and try it with the current limiter. If there is a problem DO NOT PROCEED! Start troubleshooting.

Finally, remove the current limiter and try the amp. If there is a problem, start troubleshooting.

I guessing the issue is in your power supply and/or rectifier tube socket. But you really have to power up with as few factors as possible to limit potential errors.
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prontold
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« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2013, 11:45:38 PM »

Thanks! I'll get one of those current limiters.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 03:08:57 AM by prontold » Logged
prontold
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« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2013, 04:55:48 PM »

So I made a current limiter and an audio probe. Things seem fine with no tubes. When I put in just the rectifier tube, the light dims dramatically for about 30 seconds, then comes back full brightness. It seems like something is shorting as more current is being drawn by the tube?
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prontold
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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2013, 05:10:15 PM »

Just figured out the problem. Turned out to be really simple! Just a few nearly invisible strands of copper wire were sticking out and shorting pin 3 of the rectifier to pin 2. Now to see if the rest of the circuit seems to work ok.
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prontold
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2013, 06:16:19 PM »

There seems to be a problem in the power amp section. Not sure what it is yet, checked wiring and for stray copper strands. Should the filament pins measure 0 volts to ground? Because they seem to be doing that...
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prontold
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2013, 06:20:32 PM »

Whoops, I mean 0 ohms to ground
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prontold
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« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2013, 07:16:13 PM »

So the filaments were fine. Had a couple of wiring errors in the power amp, but now thanks largely to Nik and wyatt, I have a fine, handwired, working clone of an amp I could never afford!
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prontold
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2013, 01:35:13 AM »

As the cab I ordered to house this amp finally came, I put on a finishing touch of making the bright cap on the clean channel switchable and was about to install the amp in the cab... However, I noticed that there was a (fairly quiet) low frequency hum when using the tube rectifier in half power mode. I've been emailing back and forth with Nik about this and so far I'm not sure what could be the issue. Here's what's going on:

Amp in full power mode, tube or ss rectifier: no hum, everything seems to work fine

Amp in half power mode, ss rectifier: no hum, everything seems to work fine

Amp in half power mode, tube rectifier: low level low freq hum, is not affected at all by any of the tone, gain, or volume controls

Measure the voltages and things seem to be running at appropriate voltages...

Any ideas on what to look for?
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prontold
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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2013, 01:25:10 PM »

So to sum up a different way, there is some kind of hum related to the tube rectifier that only becomes audible when the power tubes are run as triodes. It is not affected by the master volume, so the issue must be somewhere after the phase inverter.
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wyatt
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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2013, 11:00:37 PM »

Unfortunately, increased hum is normal for triode mode. But you can treat the symptoms.

Hum, a change of tone (especially a loss of hi-end), and shorter tube life are all unavoidable side-effects of triode mode. I'm surprised you don;t have hum with the SS rectification.

In a dedicated triode setup (hi-fi and such), you would (ideally) take the signal off the screen pins and retain the screen filtering, but that doesn't make for easy pentode/triode switching. If you look at the layout Nik provides, you'll see when you switch to Triode mode you disconnect the screens from their filer cap (wire S1) and connect them to the plates. You've reduced ripple filtering in the circuit.

People tackle this a variety of ways, a simple fix may be increasing the resistor value between the plate and screen, I've read where some people draw B+ voltage from a latter filter in triode mode, but that gets a bit complicated. Do a Google search on triode switching hum and you'll be overwhelmed with people's triode hum problems and suggested solutions.

I add a caveat, I don't know how loud you amp's hum is, it may be abnormal, just know that increased hum is a normal part of triode switching. One issue that may create abnormal hum is if only one tube is successfully connecting the screens to the plates, then the amp will be horribly unbalanced. But from the sounds of it...your amp is working as designed.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 05:34:41 PM by wyatt » Logged
prontold
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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2013, 03:24:51 PM »

Thanks again Wyatt. Really appreciate that you are around to help. The hum is not so loud, definitely not noticeable compared to instrument volume when playing anywhere near rehearsal levels. I've realized that there is a little bit of it in full power mode with the tube rec. So low that it is really only noticeable as a subtle change of ambiance when you switch between the tube and SS recto. In triode mode, it is noticeable but not loud compared to instrument volume. I noticed that triode mode disconnected the screen from the filter network and was wondering if that was the cause of the hum...

RE: increasing the resistor value between plate and screen, are there any potential negative effects of doing this?

I have found the triode mode useful for one song when recording with my band. A bit more of a compressed and jangly sound to the clean channel.
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wyatt
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« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2013, 05:38:26 PM »

Honestly, I've had amps with triode/pentode switching and hated triode mode. Besides hum, everything turns to mush, it gets darker sounding, less focused and the feel gets rel "spongy" (for lack of a better term).

So, its not something I've spent too much time researching.

If you get hum in pentode mode, it may just be normal for the Bad Cat circuit, or it might be a lead dress issue. If you can reduce the hum in pentode mode, it should reduce the hum in triode mode. BUT, typically fixes to tame some aspects of guitar amp design (which is rather primal) can neuter the responsiveness of the amp.
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