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Author Topic: Layout Hicups  (Read 4906 times)
gearjunkie
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« on: February 20, 2013, 04:01:26 PM »

Building this first DC30 and trying to figure out from this Aug 2012 Layout on the rectifier tube sockets on pins 4-5, 6-7 what they are. are they suppose to be resistors, and of so what values...quite a change building one of these from a few Trinitys I've done where things are explained better..  Huh?

also, with the impendance Switch, is it just as easy to do an continuity check for what wire feeds which centre pin an what goes to the 4,8 and 16 taps ?? 
 Chair Dance
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wyatt
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2013, 07:50:44 PM »

Building this first DC30 and trying to figure out from this Aug 2012 Layout on the rectifier tube sockets on pins 4-5, 6-7 what they are. are they suppose to be resistors, and of so what values...quite a change building one of these from a few Trinitys I've done where things are explained better..  Huh?

They are diodes 1n4007 carefully note their polarity on the layout. It has become a standard "best practice" for amp builders to add these as a fallback for the tube and are becoming very common on boutique amps and even mass-produced amps. These should be used on all rectifier tube sockets.

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2008/Jul/The_Immortal_Amplifier_Mod.aspx

They are a bit ambiguous on the layouts, I disagree with Nik not publishing his schematics. Layouts are intended for assembly by people who have be trained in the procedure of wiring amps, and omit many details that are assumed the assembler doesn't have be reminded of (like heater wiring). Schematics on the other hand are the real roadmaps of the amp and include everything.

also, with the impendance Switch, is it just as easy to do an continuity check for what wire feeds which centre pin an what goes to the 4,8 and 16 taps ??  
 Chair Dance
Thank you

You can check continuity before you wire in the OT to know which solder tab to connect which OT tap to. But since all the transformer taps are connected together at the coil, you'll get a continuity beep for every tap at every switch setting if you check after you've wired it up.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 07:58:22 PM by wyatt » Logged
gearjunkie
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2013, 12:30:02 AM »

Thanks Wyatt, I realized once I posted that infact they were diodes, Excellent reading from premierguitar, that's a great idea to have them in there...i'm going to be adding them to my 5E3 also, and should've thought of this before..

I agree of the importance of a schematic and in my opinion, it should be a prerequisite with any kit, hopefully Nik will make them available in the future..

regarding the continuity check, I meant checking the switch only, prior to installing OT wires (i'm using West Labs trannies)...but i'll get it figured out..

what's the deal with the power tube spring retainers, are you suppose to fasten star lugs to tube socket hold down bolts, then wind the spring into retainer eyelet, or are these even necessary, as with the thin aluminum shielding plate that's intended to go between the OT and pre amp tubes, as I see in some photos, they were not installed...

Thanks again for your help.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 12:48:08 AM by gearjunkie » Logged
wyatt
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2013, 08:49:11 AM »

Thanks Wyatt, I realized once I posted that infact they were diodes, Excellent reading from premierguitar, that's a great idea to have them in there...i'm going to be adding them to my 5E3 also, and should've thought of this before..

I agree of the importance of a schematic and in my opinion, it should be a prerequisite with any kit, hopefully Nik will make them available in the future..

regarding the continuity check, I meant checking the switch only, prior to installing OT wires (i'm using West Labs trannies)...but i'll get it figured out..

what's the deal with the power tube spring retainers, are you suppose to fasten star lugs to tube socket hold down bolts, then wind the spring into retainer eyelet, or are these even necessary, as with the thin aluminum shielding plate that's intended to go between the OT and pre amp tubes, as I see in some photos, they were not installed...

Thanks again for your help.

I haven't built the Dizzy 30 itself, so I'm not familiar with the retainers Nik uses, but usually the spring is already attached the the mounting lug on most styles, you just bolt it to the chassis with the tube socket screw.

EL84's are prone to microphonics, especially in combos, so I would use some sort of retainer. The string kind are nice because they allow a bit of tolerance, newer EL84 styles are all deviating from the traditional size as companies try and make a more robust EL84, the Sovtek EL84M and Mullard are larger bottles than old style EL84's and the TAD are shorter and fatter.

There have been threads here where people have said they had to add the shield next to the OT after trying to skip it, so I would add it.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 08:23:55 PM by wyatt » Logged
gearjunkie
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2013, 06:32:34 PM »

Ya, its kinda a weird setup with the retainers, the springs have no eyelet to hook into anything, its just a straight spring, but hopefully someone might chime in and help me out

being you haven't built one of these amps wyatt, I guess you might not know then where the shielded wires run...I know on the 5E3's I built they run up to the volume, but i'm not sure at all on these, and there's no indication either on the layout where it would be so simply to add that to the drawing while their doing it, and again, Hopefully Nik will start adding that in the future for people..
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wyatt
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2013, 08:34:27 PM »

Ya, its kinda a weird setup with the retainers, the springs have no eyelet to hook into anything, its just a straight spring, but hopefully someone might chime in and help me out

being you haven't built one of these amps wyatt, I guess you might not know then where the shielded wires run...I know on the 5E3's I built they run up to the volume, but i'm not sure at all on these, and there's no indication either on the layout where it would be so simply to add that to the drawing while their doing it, and again, Hopefully Nik will start adding that in the future for people..

Looking at the layout (and applying best practices in amp building)...
1.) A1 and A2 from the Normal input jacks to V1.
2.) C1 and C2 from the EF86 inputs to V3.
These are pretty much givens.

Looking at the picture below (and referencing the layout)...
3.) B from the Volume pot of the Normal channel to Pin 2 of the V2.
4.) From D, E,F, and G to the FX loop jacks.

Note the standoffs used to connect the 68K input resistors between the shielded wire and the tube sockets.


This rotating 180 from the above pics, it's V1 and V2....


Also rotating 180, it's V3....

FX Loop jacks (rotated...what 150?)...


Note V1 has everything connected across the triodes because they are wired in parallel, Matchless must have had a leftover triode and decided to use it in parallel with the first gain stage, this doesn't really add a significant amount of gain, but really beefs up the tone.

Found a schematic for the Matchless C30, don't expect the Ceriatone to be an exact match, but it's a great reference...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 08:45:27 PM by wyatt » Logged
gearjunkie
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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2013, 08:58:59 AM »

That's far better than I expected Wyatt..

Thank you very much for the help..
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gearjunkie
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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2013, 02:03:39 PM »

Wyatt, after reviewing these appreciative photos, the shielded wire which runs from V1 up to the normal channel inputs, there are two hots and then one grounded within the same one wire. i'm not sure as I haven't looked at the coax within the kit, but normally isn't there just one live lead and ground within most coax wire?? just wondering if I'll have to run a 2nd separate coax to accomplish the same job..
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wyatt
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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2013, 03:18:18 PM »

Wyatt, after reviewing these appreciative photos, the shielded wire which runs from V1 up to the normal channel inputs, there are two hots and then one grounded within the same one wire.

That's how it looks to me.

i'm not sure as I haven't looked at the coax within the kit,

Probably a good idea to itemize and sort and check.

but normally isn't there just one live lead and ground within most coax wire??

There is no normal. One can order as many live leads within the shield as they care to. But in this case, two or four leads within the shield are common...the latter is obviously extremely common for pickups.

You are right in that coaxial cable is concentric wires, so technically, multiple leads inside a shield is NOT coaxial.

just wondering if I'll have to run a 2nd separate coax to accomplish the same job..

Hell no.

1.) Look in the box!

2.) If not in the box, bug Nik! He obviously had the multi-lead wire when he made the amp on the website.
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gearjunkie
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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2013, 03:42:21 PM »

Thanks Wyatt, The supplied shielded wire is single signal and braided ground only...Be great if I could get Nik to send multi strand up to finish this build Smiley Whats the best method to contact the man ?
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wyatt
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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2013, 03:45:26 PM »

I think he likes to do all correspondence over e-mail, so he has a paper trial to refer to.

Should be the same way you contacted him to order the kit. At the very least, he is probably willing to explain what has changed, if anything.
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gearjunkie
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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2013, 04:06:05 PM »

I think it would look so much cleaner having two signal leads and shielding within the one wire and with any luck nik will take care of me over it, rather than running two singles....fingers crossed   Grin
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gearjunkie
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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2013, 03:35:33 PM »

Well, Nik was quick in replying to my email and he noted that all his kits now are supplied with the single conductor shielded wire, so I guess that means, i'll be running two separate runs, but that's ok,,maybe not as clean as using a single, but it'll get the job done.. Many thanks again Wyatt for your assistance..
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gearjunkie
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« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2013, 06:07:14 PM »

Wondering about "D" on the layout, as it shows it runs from the upper effects loop input then up to the 220K and 100K resistors on the board,,,does it need to be just straight wire or shielded because in the photos you included Wyatt, it look like there are 4 shielded connections on the effects loop inputs...wanted to make sure before I ran anything...thank you again for the help..
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