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Author Topic: EF806 replacing EF86, power scalling and other questions!  (Read 18340 times)
Mitch
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« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2009, 05:47:34 PM »
The EL84 is really like a mini EL34- somewhat 'crunchy' and it easily compresses - Hywel, have you the dual 5V4 rectifier set-up installed? - If not, that may be your answer for more compression & sustain via the volume control... my Dizzy is much smoother and refined than with just a single GZ34 rectifier valve.  I know what you mean though- the volume output is ridiculous, but the master volume sucks too much tone away for my tastes... I might give the Marshall Powerbreak I have a go... will report back.
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hywelg
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« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2009, 08:14:59 AM »
Quote from: Mitch on April 29, 2009, 05:47:34 PM
The EL84 is really like a mini EL34- somewhat 'crunchy' and it easily compresses - Hywel, have you the dual 5V4 rectifier set-up installed? - If not, that may be your answer for more compression & sustain via the volume control... my Dizzy is much smoother and refined than with just a single GZ34 rectifier valve.  I know what you mean though- the volume output is ridiculous, but the master volume sucks too much tone away for my tastes... I might give the Marshall Powerbreak I have a go... will report back.

No I haven't managed to find 5v4's yet, Hotrox haven't got any , but I'm in no hurry yet, love it just the way it is.

The Mullard EF86 is a very nice valve indeed, no problems with microphonics last evening and it does sound so warm compared to The JJ or EH. Will stick with it and get some more I think.

Before shelling out on a Powerbreak/Hotplate try one. My Hotplates work well with the OTS up to -8db  but with the DC-30 they are poor, thats one of the reasons I went for power scaling. I had it on about ΒΌ power last night and it was really nice. As I said before you do still lose something but its different to an attenuator where you lose tone badly.
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alwalt
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« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2009, 08:52:29 PM »
Once you play an EL84 amp you inmdiatedly fall in love with them... there is something to them that is magical. Even my Paevey Minicolosal (1 12ax7 1 EL84) that is capable of higher gain sounds, have this magic and  the powersponge attenuator does a nice job.
I am a newbie here, how does the powerscaling works? I saw the kits and they seem really "simple" if you compare to an attenuator...
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hywelg
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« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2009, 07:56:18 AM »
Quote from: alwalt on April 30, 2009, 08:52:29 PM

I am a newbie here, how does the powerscaling works? I saw the kits and they seem really "simple" if you compare to an attenuator...


I had London Power http://www.londonpower.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=7&osCsid=fb65c5b33618800e48a4fc0537eee5eebudget kit installed for me by an authorised tech. Its not a simple fit, cathode bias amps need a small fan to cool the chips. It works by lowering the B+ voltage and the bias supply along with it. Tone is affected but I can get good tone at much lower volumes than my Hotplate.
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alwalt
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« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2009, 03:49:38 PM »
Quote from: hywelg on May 01, 2009, 07:56:18 AM
Quote from: alwalt on April 30, 2009, 08:52:29 PM

I am a newbie here, how does the powerscaling works? I saw the kits and they seem really "simple" if you compare to an attenuator...


I had London Power http://www.londonpower.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=7&osCsid=fb65c5b33618800e48a4fc0537eee5eebudget kit installed for me by an authorised tech. Its not a simple fit, cathode bias amps need a small fan to cool the chips. It works by lowering the B+ voltage and the bias supply along with it. Tone is affected but I can get good tone at much lower volumes than my Hotplate.



I see... So this is not like a load for the speaker or alike... it works before the speaker out jack... Another question -I may be hijacking my own thread!-  Once you install this PS it will always be engaged? or it is some how bypassable if you want it to? or is it like MV that on 100% is bypassed? Huh?

As far as I understand, this PS won't short life on your EL84's as a Hotplate would, because it works "inside" the circuit and not as an outside load. Please correct me if I'm getting it wrong.

Thanks for your answers and patience!
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hywelg
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« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2009, 05:15:41 PM »
Quote from: alwalt on May 01, 2009, 03:49:38 PM
I see... So this is not like a load for the speaker or alike... it works before the speaker out jack... Another question -I may be hijacking my own thread!-  Once you install this PS it will always be engaged? or it is some how bypassable if you want it to? or is it like MV that on 100% is bypassed? Huh?

It is always engaged but when the pot is maxed the voltages are as designed, i.e full on.

Quote from: alwalt on May 01, 2009, 03:49:38 PM
As far as I understand, this PS won't short life on your EL84's as a Hotplate would, because it works "inside" the circuit and not as an outside load. Please correct me if I'm getting it wrong.

Thanks for your answers and patience!

No, because you are reducing the voltages to get your power reduction, tube life is not reduced and may even be extended. With a Hotplate you run your tubes at gigging levels but your speaker is producing bedroom levels. They are going to reach the end of their life sooner, but it won't kill them.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2009, 11:48:20 AM by hywelg » Logged
alwalt
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« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2009, 05:26:17 PM »
Excelent!
And what about gain and crunch? on lower PS settings, you can crank the EF86 and get higher gain sounds at lower volume? Does your old EF86 got microphonic when you cranked it even at low PS settings, or was it just at blast?
Regards!
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hywelg
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« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2009, 11:46:41 AM »
Quote from: alwalt on May 01, 2009, 05:26:17 PM
And what about gain and crunch? on lower PS settings, you can crank the EF86 and get higher gain sounds at lower volume?

Yes. I have a two knob Powerscaling setup, Power and Drive Compensation, because as you reduce the voltages you get more distortion, so turning down the Drive Comp it cleans up the sound. But don't get carried away, the tone at bedroom levels is not as good as cranked. This amp needs to be shifting air!

Quote from: alwalt on May 01, 2009, 05:26:17 PM
Does your old EF86 got microphonic when you cranked it even at low PS settings, or was it just at blast?

No the microphonics are volume/vibration related, and not a problem at all now with the Mullard.
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alwalt
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« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2009, 05:45:38 PM »
well... yes... after all we are looking for bedroom solutions, somehow you will sacrifice some tone on the quest. As you said, the dc it's an must-crank amp. I've been trying some very low MV with a boost, and it's been delivering good for late practice at home. But sill I'm curious about the PS, it's something you may need to tame the amp at rehearsal or gigs in small places. My last gigs have seen my amp at 9:00 or less, at lo power. I can see the sound guy going crazy when I attemp to get more gain from the amp and not from pedals...

Tomorrow night I'll try a couple of changes in my setup... I plan to try the amp at 12 or close to, and use an compressor to cut the signal at half or so for cleaner settings, no compressor for stronger rythm and sd1/808 for solos... Tell you about it later!
If results are as expected, some PS may be needed, because MV will damage my tone, I've tried before at higher volume settings and thins too much...
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alwalt
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« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2009, 04:18:32 PM »
well I tried it... and could not keep for more than 5 minutes... the small room, the other guys complaining... the amp SOOO loud.... It worked beautiful, but it's too damn3d loud!
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hywelg
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« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2009, 08:24:53 PM »
I get complaints at 10:00 never mind 12:00!!
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Mitch
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« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2009, 08:07:22 PM »
Finally got round to trying the DC30 with a Marshall Powerbreak (I still have it after my 100w Marshall days!) - predictably it made the amp fizzy at very low settings- but still sounded better than the master volume, which really thins out your tone.... I'm going to try lowering the voltage via inserting a lower o/p tube rectifier- maybe a GZ30, anyone else try this?  Should be similar in effect to power scaling I think???  I'm after more squash & distortion at a MUCH lower volume- and this may well do it...  comments anyone?
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