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Author Topic: 5F4 - FAT mod  (Read 28439 times)
bluesfendermanblues
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« on: August 05, 2011, 06:46:13 PM »

Dear all,

I have recently build a 5F4 Tweed super clone - very close to stock, using hammond transformers and a chassis from TAD.
Speakers are a pair of Weber 10A125, (which I used to use in a RI Bassman 59 - so they are well played in)

As you probably all know, a 5F4 is a pretty simple and straight forward amp, and it worked flawless at first power up.

However, a 5F4 is one of the more bright tweed amps and is often referred to (on the clone companies websites) as the perfect humbucker amp. I'm a strat player, so what do a guy do?

I searched a lot of forums - this one included - in order to get some tricks to fatten up the tone. Have tried all tricks in the book:

After a lot of experimentation I have arrived at the following fat switch - (BTW I didnt 'invent' this feature, but am only posting to share my personal experience that this is a usefull to mod the tone stack in a 5F4):

Fat switch:

Installed an on-off-on switch with a 500p Mica cap and a 1000p Mica cap - between V1 and V2 below the chassis - that can put none of one of the caps in parallel with the 250p treble cap. It provides you with the following sound options:

Pos 1 (adding a 1000p): sounds like a big fat Tweed Twin 5E8a
Pos 2 (no extra cap): stock 5F4 circuit
Pos 3: (adding a 500p): sounds like a 5E5 pro


Cathode Bias Switch

I have also used the 'ground' switch for cathode bias with a 250 ohm parallel by a 50uF cap - this option sounds very close the sotck fixed bias option.

Paul C mod

Have also tried the Paul C mod, but IMO it didn't do anything for the tone of this amp (same goes for a new build 5E3). Paul C used this mod on a Princeton Reverb, but according the himself never on a tweed: http://www.firebottle.com/fireforum/fireBB.cgi?cfg=dlx&enter=go

Hope this info is usefull to some of the 5F4 cloners out there!
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 02:19:18 AM by bluesfendermanblues » Logged

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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2011, 06:50:06 PM »

Very Nice!! Your mods are always the bestest Wink
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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2011, 02:28:50 AM »

Very Nice!! Your mods are always the bestest Wink

Thanks, but it really annoyed me that this great combo was not voiced for a strat... at least not for playing blues. A 5F4 focus on higher frequencies and has a "hollow" mid register and you have to cranck it to "9" to get a little bit of blues drive. The stock circuit is great for Gibson humbucker guitars, though.

The above mentioned mod makes this a great blues amp simply by "moving" the energy level down a couple of registers, down where a strat lives in blues music.
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Tone Control
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2011, 02:27:31 PM »

My Victoria Super sounds fine on the normal channel with my strats - presence and treble both high on 10 (out of 12)
the bright channel works well for humbuckers, with the treble on 6, and presence on 3
It contains P10R drivers
It drives with a strat once you get past 4 (out of 12)
It is more mid-sounding than a Victoria Tweed Twin
 
Which Super is truer to the original? I've never seen an original
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Dr Tone Control, Strats mostly, prefer saturated clean tones, a little OD sometimes
BM50, JTM45, 36w EF86, DZ30, Expression, + non-Ceriatones (Matchless, Victoria, Wienbrock)
Just started with pedals a little after a 10 year purist spell, but usually just delay
bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2011, 09:00:31 AM »

My Victoria Super sounds fine on the normal channel with my strats - presence and treble both high on 10 (out of 12)
the bright channel works well for humbuckers, with the treble on 6, and presence on 3
It contains P10R drivers
It drives with a strat once you get past 4 (out of 12)
It is more mid-sounding than a Victoria Tweed Twin
 
Which Super is truer to the original? I've never seen an original

Hi Tone, funny how different these amps can sound. Maybe these amps need a lot of burn-in time just like the Dumble amps.

What preamp tube are you using in your super amp.

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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2011, 11:45:22 AM »

I think most new amps do. I think most of us are used to either buying used well broken in amps, new amps that have had alot of break in at the factory, or buying an amp at a music store (remember when we used to do that??) that have alot of burn in time in the store.
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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2011, 04:27:23 PM »

Tried another GE NOS 12AY7 ...... much better!

Fuller sound even with the added switch in "off" position, which is the same as stock circuit.

I'm really surprised by the variation NOS tubes these days. Are NOS really worth it. Any tips for new 12ay7s??



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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2011, 05:39:58 PM »

The only new production ones that i know of are ElectroHarmonix ones. I've had good luck with ANOS GE ones both standard and JAN versions from KCA Nos tubes. It seems like the ANOS ones that are burned in a little bit seem to work better, and are fairly reasonable, about the same as new production for the non JAN version.

Hope this helps!

Gregg
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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2011, 05:01:57 AM »

The only new production ones that i know of are ElectroHarmonix ones. I've had good luck with ANOS GE ones both standard and JAN versions from KCA Nos tubes. It seems like the ANOS ones that are burned in a little bit seem to work better, and are fairly reasonable, about the same as new production for the non JAN version.

Hope this helps!

Gregg

Hi PVAB, thanks for the tip.
I Have ordered a brand new EH 12AY7 and is looking at the KCA site.
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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2011, 10:04:18 PM »

No prob! Hope it all works out! I'm seriously considering a 5E5A pro and will be in need of 12AY7's soon too Smiley let us know how it works out for ya!

Gregg
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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
Homesick Hanes
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« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2011, 12:56:31 AM »

Speakers. I would say try mixing or going back to ceramics. While 4X10s alnico always work great, 2 alnico speakers can sound wimpy with a Strat. I never liked the vibrolux reverb for that reason, even though it had my fave speakers - CTS alnico. And weber speakers are even brightrer I think. Try Emi Rajin Cajun. If your weber is in the 100 db, mix a raging cajun with the weber. THe cajun has a very solid bottom, nice & round - almost like a 12. Full & bright.   
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