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Author Topic: Ceriatone Divided 65  (Read 7967 times)
Octopussy
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« on: February 09, 2012, 11:59:05 AM »

Hey guys.  CUrious about something...

I KNOW and not comparing but I've been curious if I would be happier with something else.  I really like my Ceriatones but haven't really ever tried 65 or Divided amps.  I know they're different.  BUT>  If I put the Ceriatone up next to a 65 or D, would the difference in quality of tone be dramatic?  Even though they sound different and the Ceriatone isn't designed to be LIKE the others, would the others blow it out of the water as far as vibe, mojo, tone etc??
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wyatt
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2012, 11:21:46 PM »

Hey guys.  CUrious about something...

I KNOW and not comparing but I've been curious if I would be happier with something else.  I really like my Ceriatones but haven't really ever tried 65 or Divided amps.  I know they're different.  BUT>  If I put the Ceriatone up next to a 65 or D, would the difference in quality of tone be dramatic?  Even though they sound different and the Ceriatone isn't designed to be LIKE the others, would the others blow it out of the water as far as vibe, mojo, tone etc??

It's moot.

You haven't even played the other amps, how do you even know you like them?  How are we suppose to know which you would prefer?

The tone is probably different, but $$$=/=better. 
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SoundPerf
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2012, 09:58:37 PM »

It's moot.

You haven't even played the other amps, how do you even know you like them?  How are we suppose to know which you would prefer?

The tone is probably different, but $$$=/=better. 

++1

If you're not comparing apples to apples it's not going to be a fair comparison anyway.
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Chris

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Octopussy
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 01:39:58 PM »

No.  I haven't played them, just read reviews and listen online.  Plus, they have a lot of cool features that I asked Nik for which he cannot do.

As I said, I know they are different.  I'm not asking for a comparison.  I'm not asking you to tell me which amp I will like better.  My question is if I plug them up side to side, will the other amps blow this Ceriatone out of the water.  Ceriatone is cool.  But soundwise.  Will these other amps smoke it.  Will they sound better.  Like, a Peavey vs a Marshall, I think it's easy to say that most Peavey's will not sound as nice.  Will a Dan Electro Distortion pedal sound better than a fulltone?  Will driving a Toyota be more impressive than a Lexus? 

Yes, these amps cost more, I do not have a problem with that.  If they are going to smoke my Ceriatone, I don't mind throwing some more cash down.  Unfortunately, I don't have anywhere close to try these out side by side.  Thought someone would have some constructive feedback. 
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SoundPerf
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 02:08:58 PM »

No.  I haven't played them, just read reviews and listen online.  Plus, they have a lot of cool features that I asked Nik for which he cannot do.

As I said, I know they are different.  I'm not asking for a comparison.  I'm not asking you to tell me which amp I will like better.  My question is if I plug them up side to side, will the other amps blow this Ceriatone out of the water.  Ceriatone is cool.  But soundwise.  Will these other amps smoke it.  Will they sound better.  Like, a Peavey vs a Marshall, I think it's easy to say that most Peavey's will not sound as nice.  Will a Dan Electro Distortion pedal sound better than a fulltone?  Will driving a Toyota be more impressive than a Lexus? 

Yes, these amps cost more, I do not have a problem with that.  If they are going to smoke my Ceriatone, I don't mind throwing some more cash down.  Unfortunately, I don't have anywhere close to try these out side by side.  Thought someone would have some constructive feedback. 

I guess I still can't quite get my head around your logic. I guess since you posted in the 18watt British section that is the type amp you own and are referring to. But you use the term "Ceriatone as if it's a style of amp instead of a brand or builder. So I would think you would want to pick a specific Divided By 13 to a specific Ceriatone amp so we can make an useful response.

If lots of features is something you're looking for that can only be reasonably implimented with PCB's than very likely another amp company is what you need to look at.

Also, you compare Lexus with Toyota as if Toyata is just always inferior. But if you are someone who works in construction or on a farm then a Toyota Tundra is going to blow away a Lexus LS in a muddy, rocky, crap filled enviroment. It's making a proper comparison that is what is needed which you haven't asked yet.

All that said, the amp companies you mentioned make really nice stuff and I'm sure you will be able to find something from them that will blow you away. But as you said, it will cost you.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 02:14:07 PM by SoundPerf » Logged

Chris

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wyatt
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 04:14:49 PM »

No.  I haven't played them, just read reviews and listen online.  Plus, they have a lot of cool features that I asked Nik for which he cannot do.

As I said, I know they are different.  I'm not asking for a comparison.  I'm not asking you to tell me which amp I will like better.  My question is if I plug them up side to side, will the other amps blow this Ceriatone out of the water.  Ceriatone is cool.  But soundwise.  Will these other amps smoke it.  Will they sound better.  Like, a Peavey vs a Marshall, I think it's easy to say that most Peavey's will not sound as nice.  Will a Dan Electro Distortion pedal sound better than a fulltone?  Will driving a Toyota be more impressive than a Lexus? 

Yes, these amps cost more, I do not have a problem with that.  If they are going to smoke my Ceriatone, I don't mind throwing some more cash down.  Unfortunately, I don't have anywhere close to try these out side by side.  Thought someone would have some constructive feedback. 

Your logic is flawed.

Test is subjective and very personal.

For example, I'll take a Peavey 6505+ over a Marshall JCM900, DSL, TSL or JVM. And I'll take a Dano French Toast, which is based on the exact same circuit as the Fulltone Ultimate Octave, over the Fulltone on when it comes to sound...but I would consider the Fulltone more tour-rugged.

I can't say that the Ceraitone will sound better or worse than the /13 or such.  The fact is, the Marshall 18-watt circuit is the Marshall 18-watt circuit, there are no magic parts, iofyou build the circuit right, it'll sound great, and all of it's modern-day spin-offs..the TMB, EF86, etc. are variations on the theme, as is the /13, Suhr and many others.  It's all really about which appeals to you.

You really seem the kinda guy that believes boutique chic and higher prices = better tone.  You already discounting the Ceriatone without hearing any of the amps; since you are pre-determined, you won't be happy with a Ceraitone, so why ask? You are looking for something that implies class and talent on looks, not merit.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 08:57:05 PM by wyatt » Logged
cmoore
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2012, 12:00:42 PM »

It is very possible you would like some 65 amps better than your Ceriatones.....or some /13 as well. But the reverse is also possible. You might prefer some of the Ceriatones over the other makes.
As Wyatt said, it seems to us that you have already made up your mind.
Let me ask. Do You/Can You build, repair, work on amps.? There are often just a handful of resistors and capacitors layed out in a series of different configurations. What we call a "circuit". Again, as Wyatt says, if you build a Marshall 18, it will sound similar to all others.
Once you have been in enough amps, you start to realize there are A LOT of commonalities.....in circuits, component value, and design. From there, different builders will manipulate some of the finer points, move the audio slope up or down.....emphasize this, or emphasize that.....and make some of those things switchable.
But do not think that 65, /13, Two Rock, or all the others, have some "Magic Knowledge" about amps. They are smart educated guys, but they all know the same thing. They just change it up, and put their own mark on it. That includes Nik as well.
Best
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Octopussy
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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2012, 10:39:42 AM »

First of all, I just want to thank you all VERY much for taking the time to answer my question.  I'm not sure why I can't really get across what I want.  I guess that I was assuming people would pretend that I have some common sense and I'm not a complete idiot.  I guess I really have to spell everything out...   

I thought my question was pretty simple.  Is the sound quality going to be night and day.  Will it be very different in terms of quality.  Not - will I like it more or is one better than the other.  But, If I sit down with and in two seconds say "holy cow, this amp sucks compared to this other one", that's what I wanted to know.  Tone is subjective but what I am wanting to know is NOT subjective, at least I don't think so. 

Thanks CMoore for your answer, it was very helpful.  Yes, these are variations and takes on the same thing.  I'm not convinced one is better than the other.  But again, my Teisco Del Rey guitar compared to my Gibson is night and day.  EVERYONE would agree because the Teisco doesn't stay in tune, the strings are a foot off the fretboard and the volume pot is very scratchy.  The Gibson is all quality and doesn't have any of the problems that the Teisco does. 

And the comparison on cars, yes I see your point.  If I'm on a farm, I would prefer a Tundra.  Again, with some common sense (if you could read my mind) I am comparing driveability, quality.  A Lexus will outdrive and outperform and outhandle a Toyota ANY day of the week.  No contest.  As SOON as you get in the Lexus, it is NIGHT and DAY.  Night And Day...  So.  That's what I wanted to know.  If it still doens't make sense what I'm asking then I need to take a class on conveying ideas better...   hahaha....

Again, thanks SO much for your time and help.  I think I feel a little more confident which is really what I wanted.  I didn't want to be sacrificing or loosing out on something by just sticking and being happy with my Ceriatone.  I have two of them so obviously I'm not sold on the other amps.  I want to just KNOW that I am playing with big boy toys and can comfortably hang with some of the higher priced boys.   

Any additional thoughts and comments would be very much appreciated. 

Thanks again!
J
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wyatt
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2012, 12:05:23 PM »

I think I get the drift.

Ceriatone is all premium parts and well assembled.  It's parts are equally as good as those used in the /13 or 65 Amps; and if you have a preference for certain parts or mods, you can get the Ceriatone custom built with them, which may not be an option for the others.  Construction-wise, the Ceriatones are all overbuilt and "tour rugged."

People often associate lower-priced Asian products with the efforts many companies use to cut corners and drive up profit margins. In this case, Ceriatone is privately owned, boutique and custom amp company that just happens to be be based in Malaysia, a country that has such a successful science and technology university system that they have more engineers and designers than they know what to do with.

As for tone, as noted above, it's in the eye of the beholder...you will like some amps and hate some amps, regardless of how well made and how well reviewed. Chances are 75% of all amps you try will never come close to a tone you have in your head. You expect there is a night and day good/bad threshold that is universal.  There is not.  It is all subjective.  Even the crudest, roughest, most buzzy amp out there finds a home in the garage band stylings of performers like Frank Zappa and Jack White.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 12:20:28 PM by wyatt » Logged
squatch
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2012, 06:56:02 PM »

Here's a pic of Zappa's 'garage band' guitar rig as replicated by Dweezil



 Zappa was much more than 'the guy who sat on the toilet with the weird hair'
Zappa only made fun of garage bands in 'Joe's Garage', he did 70 + albums besides that one
He did a lot to advance guitar technology...helped Duncan develop the Stack pickups....introduced
Clapton to the wah pedal...was the first to record mutron mag & piezo on the acoustic etc.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 08:13:35 PM by squatch » Logged

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wyatt
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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2012, 07:32:07 PM »

I was specifically referencing the very lo-fi sounds of the Mothers of Invention era (see We Are Only in it for the Money and Weasels Ripped My Flesh).  Which is quintessential late-'60's garage band sound; quite literally textbook, there is usually a picture of the Mothers on the same page as a description of the scene. Let's keep in mind that The Doors and the Grateful Dead were both considered part of the same "garage band sound."

Hey, sorry to piss on your tastes, but don't try and give me a lecture. I guessing, since you jumped to a conclusion based on the title of Joe's Garage, and not a '60's music style called "Garage Band", which included The Doors and The Grateful Dead, you didn't understand my reference. Just because pop history compresses all of these acts into "rock" or "classic rock" doesn't mean it was a very splintered genre with dozens of off-shoots in it time.

I don't care what Dweezil uses while he gently sucks the last bit of marrow from his dad's bones instead of trading on his own work.  I saw Frank play Frank plenty of times. And I wasn't even born in the '60's.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 08:09:08 PM by wyatt » Logged
squatch
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2012, 08:20:02 PM »

Yeah, I agree some of the earlier Mother's sounds were a bit garage sounding and it does have it's charm
Frank did have some great hi-fi guitar sounds later...even as early as Roxy he was getting a great sound
Sorry I assumed you were judging Frank on the 60's hype perception...a lot of people do that
I only saw him in '76 with Terry Bozzio...it was fairly loud & feedback laden...heh

Yeah, I tried to find a pic of Frank's rack, but could only find Dweezil's replica
I'm not worried about Dweezil...I'm better at Frank than him and he knows it LOL
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 08:22:49 PM by squatch » Logged

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SoundPerf
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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2012, 09:44:58 PM »

This will probably piss you off even more, but it's honestly not my intention. Smiley

Quote
I guess I really have to spell everything out...
This is the problem. You still really haven't spelled it out very clearly. You've been much more specific in you retorts to what others have said, but still haven't asked something plains and simple, like....."Is a Divided by 13 JJN50/100 better than a Ceriatone JTM 50?" That would be a question that someone could attempt to give a thoughtful answer. Yet it still leaves many open areas of discussion.

Quote
But again, my Teisco Del Rey guitar compared to my Gibson is night and day.  EVERYONE would agree because the Teisco doesn't stay in tune, the strings are a foot off the fretboard and the volume pot is very scratchy.  The Gibson is all quality and doesn't have any of the problems that the Teisco does.
You could not have been more specific here. This is what is needed elsewhere.  

Quote
And the comparison on cars, yes I see your point.  If I'm on a farm, I would prefer a Tundra.  Again, with some common sense (if you could read my mind) I am comparing driveability, quality.  A Lexus will outdrive and outperform and outhandle a Toyota ANY day of the week.  No contest.  As SOON as you get in the Lexus, it is NIGHT and DAY.  Night And Day...  So.  That's what I wanted to know.
I'm not sure I agree that a Lexus will outperform a Toyota or is "Night and Day" 100% of the time. Keeping in mind this is just my opinion and the criteria for the comparison has barely been set. 

Quote
I want to just KNOW that I am playing with big boy toys and can comfortably hang with some of the higher priced boys.
It's a statement like this that will make ever getting an satisfactory answer out of me just about impossible.(I don't know about anyone else)

If you just wanted to know from people that have experience with other brands of amps whether Ceriatone is of a high quality you should have just asked that. I can say with all the confidence in the world that Ceriatone amps are excellent quality. It only took owning one to know this.

If the amps you have are producing the sound you want and have all the features you want than stick with them. Unless you get bored quickly (like me) and like to try different things.  Wink
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Chris

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SoundPerf
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2012, 09:54:47 PM »

I don't care what Dweezil uses while he gently sucks the last bit of marrow from his dad's bones instead of trading on his own work.  I saw Frank play Frank plenty of times. And I wasn't even born in the '60's.

If anyone should have the right and authority to play Franks music without being criticized I certainly hope it is his son. I also don't think anyone else could do it with more authenticity. Seeing classic Zappa played live is a great experience. 

I was born in the 60's and never got to see FZ live. Sad
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Chris

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squatch
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« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2012, 04:31:21 PM »

I was specifically referencing the very lo-fi sounds of the Mothers of Invention era (see We Are Only in it for the Money and Weasels Ripped My Flesh).  Which is quintessential late-'60's garage band sound; quite literally textbook, there is usually a picture of the Mothers on the same page as a description of the scene. Let's keep in mind that The Doors and the Grateful Dead were both considered part of the same "garage band sound."

I suppose I've never quite understood the classicifation of 'garage band sound', especially when applied to those particular bands. The first Zappa album (produced by Tom Wilson) & 1st Doors album (produced by Paul Rothschild) were both sonic masterpieces of their time '66-'67. I can see commonalites with the guitar sound on a lot of sixties stuff, because it was usually pointy sounding, thin & too much reverb. If that's the criteria for 'garage' then you'd have to lump Paul Kantler in there, and most of the psychedelic and rockabilly acts of the fifties and sixties.

Anyway, this is off-topic...heh

Octopussy, I noticed you have a 18 watt Ceriatone....I don't think any expensive boutique amp is gonna
trounce on that amp in particular. They might be different, but not necessarily better
I would just keep it...and buy a couple of different circuit based Ceriatones
You could have your 18 watter, a Prinzetone and a Bluesbreaker and still have change in your pocket
rather than have one overpriced 'single-sound' amp
(that's what I plan to do myself anyway...just supplement my BF Super Reverb and Ceriatone Tweed Twin with other, different amps...hopefully a Bluesmaster, 36 watt, and a Prinzetone for the bedroom!)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 04:45:33 PM by squatch » Logged

1986 Kinman Blueprint Strat
2012 Mark Jenny relic Tele
1991 Gerard Gilet 00-45 copy
1995 Gerard Gilet National reso copy
Ceriatone Overtone Special 50W (HRM mod)
Fender BF Super Reverb
Pignose 30/60 combo
Hughes Kettner Tube Rotosphere
E-H Q-Tron+
MI Blues Boy Deluxe
CAE Dunlop Dual Fase
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